Real Beauty: The friendship coach

Making friends as an adult shouldn't feel harder than finding a life partner... but for many of us, it does! 

This week on Real Beauty with FD i'm joined by friendship coach Jenna Anderson to talk about the realities of adult friendships, boundaries, conflict, loneliness and creating relationships. 

Hope you enjoy!

hit me up at @francenejdavidson

Transcript

0:00

Friendships are one of the most important relationships in our lives, yet making and maintaining them as adults can feel surprisingly difficult. As we navigate careers, motherhood, relationships, relocations, and life's many transitions, friendships often shift. They evolve and sometimes even disappear altogether. Yet meaningful connection remains one of the strongest contributors to our happiness and wellbeing. Today on Real Beauty with FD, we're joined by a friendship coach, Jenna Anderson. I am so excited to talk to Jenna today and go into more detail regarding relationships, speaking to a coaching expert. So whether you're looking to strengthen your existing friendships, find your people, or better understand the role relationships play in your life, I hope that this conversation is for you. So we are gonna get straight into it. We, uh, start off by talking about our hair, then we go straight into friendship conversations and advice from Jenna. I have some key takeaways that I got from this discussion, so I hope you do, too. Enjoy

jenna 1:47

I tried diffusing my hair for the first time today, and it didn't turn out the way I wanted it to, but I'm practicing.

francene 1:53

It looks amazing. What- what do you normally do? Like, how do you normally have it?

jenna 1:57

I just air-dry it usually, or I blow-dry it out. Straightening my hair is like going to the salon. I have to do a blowout and everything.

francene 2:05

Yeah, no, I- I hear you. And where are you based?

jenna 2:09

I'm in Long Beach.

francene 2:10

Oh, amazing.

jenna 2:12

Yeah. Yeah. It's very sunny here today, and we're getting, I think a heat wave next week, so don't know how I feel about that, though.

francene 2:18

That's what makes it so difficult in the summer. I live in Houston, and the humidity- Oh, my God oh, my God. I just resort to the fact that my hair is constantly frizzy. Regardless of what I do in the house, I leave the house and I'm like, "I don't know what happened."

jenna 2:35

Sometimes, as someone who's grown up with frizzy hair- Yeah You try any amount of hairspray, all of the hairspray, and nothing really works.

francene 2:43

Yeah.

jenna 2:44

It's just how it is.

francene 2:46

Yeah.

jenna 2:47

And it's only, it's just managing it is how you can get by.

francene 2:51

100%. So interestingly, you say about using a diffuser. So yesterday I went to the hairdresser. And she has, her hair looked amazing. Amazing and curly, and I was like, "How did you get it like that?" And she said she just used the Dyson Airwrap but bought a diffuser for it. Okay. And she was like, "It literally took two seconds." Oh. And I'm like I never thought to use my Airwrap in that way."

jenna 3:18

I- I've always wanted an Airwrap. That's gonna be on my bucket list to get soon. Bucket list. That's- that's gonna be on my- It's a good bucket

francene 3:25

list

jenna 3:25

bu- to-buy list. A bucket-to-buy list.

francene 3:29

Oh, my gosh. It is the best. I ended up getting a refurbished one, 'cause it was significantly cheaper.

jenna 3:36

Oh, okay. That- that makes a lot of sense. I just got a kind of a knockoff Dyson on Amazon. Yeah. It, I don't think it works the same. But there's also the Shark that I heard is pretty good.

francene 3:48

I heard it's good as well. Yeah, I know, I feel... now I have the Airwrap, I'm like, okay, it's- it's awesome. But prior to that, I feel like I constantly saw stuff on Instagram. It knew how to target me. Today we're joined by Jenna Anderson, a friendship coach and founder of My Friend Jenna. Jenna helps adults build meaningful friendships, navigate social challenges, and feel more connected in a world where making friends seem harder than ever. We are gonna dive into a number of different topics, which I'm so excited about. But Jenna, tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got onto this line of work.

jenna 4:28

Yeah, totally. Hello everybody. I'm excited to be here. How I became a friendship coach started about four years ago actually. And it's a kind of a journey. It didn't all suddenly happen at once. I didn't just wake up one day and decided to do this. But a few years ago I got onto TikTok for the first time, and I made a meme about just how difficult it is to make friends as an adult or like to plan like hangouts with your friends as an adult. Like we're all just busy, we've got stuff going on, and people bail last minute. And it went viral. It got 2.5 million views, and so many comments of people saying "I'm really struggling to make friends." Ha, what are friends?" "I don't have those." And it just made me feel really sad, so I started to give my advice on how to make friends on TikTok. And I've been very good at it my whole life to be completely honest. Like I, I've developed it as a skill. When I was younger I had to move around a lot. My family moved from Pittsburgh to London to San Diego to Ohio, and I had to learn to make friends over and over again growing up. So I was like, I'm gonna, share this skill with people and teach- and then I was still working a full-time job at the time until I got laid off. So I got laid off from my full-time work back in 2024, and I gave myself just three months of, to just not do anything. I feel like people really do need that break.

francene 5:49

Yeah.

jenna 5:49

I gave myself three months of just I'm not gonna work because I've got the funds, and I want to just give myself a break. And then after the three months, I was like, "I'm very bored. Why not give coaching a shot?" And so I started My Friend Jenna. It's my coaching business. It's also my handle on socials, and the reason for that is because when you say it out loud, you feel less lonely. So it's like My Friend Jenna. And yeah, I started a year ago. I've had... I, in the year of 2025, I had 20 clients my first year, which is a lot, for a coaching business at first- Yeah which is really great. And since then I've kinda slowed down on social medias just a bit, but I'm gonna be picking it back up again soon,

francene 6:31

that's amazing. I feel if you've lived in different places, and I can only imagine with the amount of people you've spoken to, you either go one of two ways. You go the way you've gone, where you find it really easy to slot into any environment meet with different people, connect, versus someone else who will go the opposite way and not make any friendships, relationships. Do you see that typically if people have moved around?

jenna 7:02

Yeah, I think that a culture really dictates how people make friends. Every city is different. It's actually something that I love to talk about. Like, how you make friends in Los Angeles is different than how you make friends in London or Amsterdam- or Italy or Mexico. There, the culture really impacts the way that you meet people and how people interact. And so I think the best thing to do when you first move somewhere to try and make friends is first give yourself the peace and the space to adjust to just the culture in general. Don't- move into your apartment and then immediately be like, "I need to go make friends right now," and then go do that. I think the goal is to accom- assimilate into the culture and just get used to it, give yourself some grace. And then once you're comfortable in your own routines, then start to go to like clubs and organizations routinely. And I think that's the part in adulthood that a lot of people don't get that you need to keep showing up. And in order to keep showing up, like that's how you make friends. And that's what friendship also requires is you keep showing up for the relationship, for the friendship. And so when you decide to join a club don't just go twice and then stop. Keep going if it's something that, you f- you genuinely as yourself really enjoy. Keep going to it. Give it a month or two, and then decide if you wanna keep going or not.

francene 8:26

Do you think that's part of the problem now, where in order to make friends, people are maybe unwilling to make that commitment? Or they maybe don't- they're not thinking about that kinda upfront commitment in order to build those deeper relationships?

jenna 8:44

Yeah. That's pretty much, you're hitting the nail on the head. I think that, in today's age, we have commitment issues in general. We're just given so many options now with the internet and with seeing things on social media and the way we wanna live our lives that I think we have decision fatigue in our social lives also. And I think there's this big cultural emphasis on, putting yourself first and taking care of yourself and self-care. And a- as wonderful as that is, if you do it too often, you do become isolated. And I see a lot of posts on social media about "It's fine to bail on your friends if you need me time. Girl, you're burnt out," and blah, blah, blah. But okay, you might be recovering from burnout, but you're also gonna lose your community of people who are supporting you- Yeah because you're opting in to do things like that. So there's a balance, and it's something that I really preach to my clients is that time management for adult relationships is actually such a big deal for not burning out socially and not burning out in just general aspects of your life,

francene 9:46

yeah, I completely agree. I feel like maybe five or six years ago I feel like I kinda changed how I split up my time with, things. So I have an older daughter who's eight, and then obviously a baby who's making all this noise in the background. But at the point where I had my older daughter, I was like, okay, you're balancing work, you're balancing your relationship with your partner. You're then balancing potentially if you're a mother. But then you're like, "My friends mean so much to me." I feel like I am so fulfilled when I meet with my friends. So then you're like, you want that balance, but then you also have the other balance of your hobbies, and maybe some of your friends, don't go to that spin class or whatever it is. And it's so hard to divide that time. But I find now I'm, like, really disciplined and really particular with who I'm sharing my time with. But in the back of my mind, even on times where I'm like, "I am so tired I just can't be bothered," I'm like no. I'm gonna go because I haven't seen this person in, X amount of weeks or whatever it is." I'm like no. I made a commitment. I'm gonna go." And I always feel so much better for it. But I do see, I do think we're in that- era of life where you are seeing people cancel more, and it's such a shame. I just think you live once, you miss out on so much.

jenna 11:19

Yeah. And back to your point about feeling burnt out and, being on the verge of canceling-

francene 11:27

Yeah

jenna 11:27

I'll be honest I've been there too. And at times I have bailed last minute, but when I do that, I tell my friend "Hey," "this is what's happening with- in my life right now." I'm very honest about it. I don't just bail for a BS reason.

francene 11:41

Yeah.

jenna 11:41

If I'm bailing last minute, it's because I actually cannot make it in a way, but I always try and, I always try and make it. I always try and stick to that commitment because, again to your point we don't have a lot of time on this planet. Yeah. And I don't wanna waste another person's time by I committed to a plan with them and now they're gonna either do it alone when they didn't want to, or they don't know what they're gonna do. Yeah. And that's a waste of time. And I just, it's a matter of respecting other people's time when it comes to bailing or not bailing, and I always feel better when I just go.

francene 12:18

Oh, same.

jenna 12:20

And sometimes I even preface "Hey, I'm feeling I'm really burnt out from the week. I'm gonna show up. I might bail early just because I'm- I need to sleep." Yeah. But at least I show up for a bit. At least I, I still make the commitment to go.

francene 12:33

Yeah. And again I think by building that deeper relationship, you're also being honest because I think at the beginning, it's so easy to... look at social media. You paint a certain picture of everything's great, everything's rosy. Yep, I'm great. But with your true friends are the ones that you can show up and be like, "Girl, let me tell you what happened today," or, "My partner's annoying me," or whatever it is. It's like you can be your raw true self, and I think even that takes a long time to get to that point with a friendship.

jenna 13:11

Yeah. More time than people think.

francene 13:14

Yeah.

jenna 13:15

Honestly. And I think there's, I've had some clients who, they followed my advice and they immediately get into a very quick friendship. But it bur- it fizzles out very fast. So it's like all this excitement and hype around the relationship, and then it starts to dwindle.

francene 13:29

Yeah.

jenna 13:30

And there's a way, there's a strategy where make sure that doesn't happen. But then- there are other relationships where you don't put in that effort, and they're like mid friendships. Or I think there's a word that people on social media are calling it, like a half-baked friendships. I don't know. TikTok's fun. TikTok has its own lingo that I don't know that I probably should by this point.

francene 13:52

And like how... what advice do you have for people where, so say they were in that, really close relationship. They're doing like everything with one another, and then for whatever reason it's, fizzling out, but maybe on one side they're continuing to push it and, try and keep the relationship alive, and the other person is like, I'm good. This was maybe a chapter in life," or, you know- other priorities. Like how do you manage that? What advice do you have?

jenna 14:25

Yeah, so what that's called is seasonal friendship. So actually, I know somebody who has gone through seasonal friendships. And personally to me, when people do that with an intention like, "I'm only gonna be friends with you for three months," or "We were friends for this phase of my life and now I don't wanna be friends anymore," I think that's all BS. Yeah. I think that's actually someone who has commitment issues and doesn't know how to communicate when other priorities are popping up in their life. And we're all adults. Priorities change, and that's okay, but it's how we communicate it. And so for instance, if you're in that kind of situation where it feels like a one-sided friendship, you really need to look back on what is it that you idealize in a friendship? What does your ideal friend look like? What do your ideal friendships look like? Is this meeting your standard? And you have to be honest. This person isn't showing up. I've only seen this person, like once in the last three months. They're not even texting. And if that's not what you want in a friendship, then either you have to a- address it with them like, "Hey, I've really missed you. What's going on?" Or you just have to let it fizzle out. Yeah and that's just because we can't control what other people do.

francene 15:33

Yeah. No, you can only control yourself and your emotions. But I think you make a really good point. And actually, I did this exercise with my daughter a couple of weeks ago, where we sat down 'cause friendship is big in our household, and I want her to have a healthy relationship with friends. So we sat down and I was like, "You need to write out what you are looking for, what a good friend looks like, and then how you are as a friend." And since we wrote that down, like we constantly come back to it on okay, is this a good friend? Could you be more understanding? Are you reflecting in how you're acting? Just because I also don't want her to grow up and be, a shitty friend or not have that, you know when you just blame everyone else instead of being like, "Wait, could I have done something? Could I have texted?" "Could I have asked how they are?" I'm really mindful of that.

jenna 16:29

That's, I love that so much. And like thinking about having kids in the future, I wanna do that with my future children, too. Teaching them how to be a good friend and building the skills to do it. And that's the other thing that people don't I think I'm trying to get across to people when I do coaching with them or as like I'm marketing my business, is that- Friendship is a skill you learn. It's like learning AI. It's like learning how to ride a bike or learning how to drive a car. It's actually very similar.

francene 16:59

Yeah.

jenna 17:00

Because, and sometimes it's not 100% systematic. Obviously results are not guaranteed. But it's a skill that you can learn, and it's a muscle that you can use over and over again to get better at. But it takes commitment. It takes effort to do it takes maybe even a little bit of getting out of your comfort zone. And I think teaching it at a younger age I think is a- amazing. I think parents should start there. If they're, if they want their kids to, have h- in comparison to adult friendships, but have healthy friendships as a kid or to even just have friends I think teaching that skill at a younger age is really vital.

francene 17:36

Yeah. I completely agree. I wish I had... I wish my parents spoke to me more about what healthy relationships look like. But I also I, I feel growing up, and obviously it's a different generation now anyway our kids are, so involved in our lives and who we're hanging out with, and we try and do a lot of family stuff. But, when I was growing up, I feel if my parents were hanging out with their friends we weren't there. So even just to be able to see what a healthy friendship looks like, there's so much more access to that now versus how it was before. But okay, so I have another question just on that kind of friendship piece. What are your thoughts on, I also think this is something I, I constantly see and I sometimes hear from my friends, you know the ones that you text- and you literally never hear back from, and then weeks later they're like, "Oh my God, I'm so sorry," or, you have to remind them, and they're like, "I'm so bad at texting back." Sometimes I'm understanding, but in the back of my mind what is that thing they say if you're, like, dating someone? If they would want to text you back, they would make time. And I sometimes think we're either too lenient with our friendships, but I don't know. What are your thoughts?

jenna 18:59

I think it takes a lot of empathy and understanding to, and comm- good communication to make sure that's not what's going on.

francene 19:07

Yeah.

jenna 19:08

And at certain times in my life, I've been that friend. I've been the friend that's hard to get ahold of. I am very pro call me if you wanna talk to me rather than text me 'cause- For whatever reason, I just don't really res- I see a text and I do that thing where I respond in my head, and then I walk away and I'm like, "Oh, shoot, I actually forgot to respond."

francene 19:28

Yeah, I have to leave it- And it's not- leave it unread- Yeah, and it's- before I respond.

jenna 19:32

And it's not, yeah, and it's not anything to that person. It's like it could be like, I have best friends here in California, and it could be them, and I'm like, "I am so sorry, I just saw this message like a week later."

francene 19:42

Yeah.

jenna 19:43

And they understand. They have the empathy to understand that I've got tons of things going on in my life, so they're like, "It's okay." Let's call each other later."

francene 19:50

Yeah.

jenna 19:51

And so that's what we end up doing. We end up having a call, and that's way better in terms of connecting. I've got a friend in New York who, she's one of my best friends. I see her probably twice a year. Sorry, not twice a year. Every two years.

francene 20:05

Yeah.

jenna 20:06

And we've set up monthly calls together, but it's every time we call each other, it's like nothing had changed. Oh, I love that. And we bare- we barely text. But through, so like I've learned that's my mode of communication when it comes to my friendships, is I prefer calling rather than text. It just is who I am.

francene 20:25

That is amazing. I love hearing that. I love a good phone call as well. Like I love FaceTime. Or, if I'm driving home from work or driving to work, like I love a good conversation. But it's interesting you say that, 'cause I also have some friends who, if you text them and they text back and you call, they would be like why are you calling me?" They just wouldn't pick up their phone. So do you see that is... Do you think there's more people like you who love a phone call, or do you think a lot of people rely on text?

jenna 20:56

I think a lot more people rely on text, but it's really interesting because- Ugh. H- I'm trying to describe this so that I don't insult the entire Gen Z population- 'cause I might, because they're so anti-phone calling. They're so anti- Yeah calling in general. That's what I mean, yeah. And I think it's actually because they're under-socialized is why they don't like to call. They're like, "What do I say?" And, "I get so nervous," and, it just feels weird, and I'd rather just look at a screen instead of a human's face. And it makes me upset that's where social culture is going.

francene 21:35

Yeah.

jenna 21:36

To be completely honest I wish that they had learned, phone calls are actually not that scary, and looking somebody in the eye is actually not as painful. It, and it is, it's different when you are neurodivergent, and like myself, I'm neurodivergent. And so it's different if you have if you're autistic or ADHD.

francene 21:53

Yeah.

jenna 21:54

That's a different story. If you're just a person who is just avoiding being social, that's something you're going to have to live with

francene 22:03

100%. I definitely do think there is a generational piece. I just finished this book. I don't know if you've read it. It's called The Anxious Generation.

jenna 22:14

I've heard of it, yeah.

francene 22:15

Oh my gosh. It is so interesting. But basically, it's about how since we have access to social media, phones, so much of that interaction has now disappeared, and so many relationships have been built on that kind of text exchange. So then when you put these people together, it's like they don't know how to communicate, whereas I'm... I love seeing people. I love talking. To me, that's... Again, I'm so fulfilled in that way. A text just isn't enough for me.

jenna 22:50

And that's the thing i- is it's just human nature. Yeah. We were born to be face-to-face. That is how we survived as a, the human race to get to the point of where we are now. Yeah. It literally took a village. It took a community to get to where we are, and if we didn't have that, we would've been extinct y- so long ago if we didn't have the need to rely on each other. And so when people say "I don't need friends," it's not true. You actually do. You need friends for your survival and to learn. For instance if you're someone who wants to better their finances, having friends who talk to you about finance, you learn- Oh,

francene 23:29

yeah

jenna 23:29

from them about those things. 100%. And if someone told you there was a natural disaster in a city that you're about to travel to but you didn't have any friends to tell you that that's not good either. The fact that you have a community or having a community to rely on is just so essential, and I wish more people understood that.

francene 23:50

Yeah. Yeah, I feel the same. Yeah,

jenna 23:53

or at least prioritized it.

francene 23:54

Yes. No, I completely agree. Okay, so switching gears a little bit, I'm curious on your thoughts on how to- sometimes with friendships, and this is more, like early 20s maybe going into, kinda late 20s. But what advice do you give to people that are struggling with people who are maybe jealous? And I think we also kinda see this a lot as you are, gaining more success in your life. And, naturally you want your friends to be happy for you, but what if you're not seeing that? How do you cope with that?

jenna 24:34

So just so I understand the situation, so it's like you have friends who are jealous that you are succeeding and moving up in life, and they're not?

francene 24:41

Yes.

jenna 24:42

Okay. That's a them problem. Th- I I just wanna be completely honest. I've had clients in the past who have had this issue, and it has, torn apart their past relationships, which is why they wanted to make new friends. You're growing as a human. You're growing as a human being, and if the friends that you have don't want to grow with you, that's on them. It's not on you and something that you can control. So if they're jealous of you and your success, I think it's important to sit them down and if you really care about the friendship, to talk to them about it. "Hey, what's making you feel this way?" "How can I be there for you?" And what, what are, like, self-doubts that you're having that, I'm here to support you, and I wanna help you out, and to not look at me as someone to compete with but as someone to grow with. And I'll... Some people just can't do that. Some people just, they don't want to grow. Yeah. And that's not a you problem. That's a them problem, and the relationship might, come to a head where you have to decide if you're not gonna grow or not with that person, or if you are. It's dating too. It's in the same situation as having a relationship with a partner that if you've outgrown them, you've outgrown them And then you wanna make friends with people who are willing to grow with you.

francene 25:59

Do you think sometimes you accept, like a lower, I don't wanna say like a lower standard, but like you accept things like that or maybe like your friends not supporting you or I don't know, like maybe, you got some friends who are a little bit like mean, and they make comments, and they belittle you. Do you see some of your clients accepting that because they don't have other friendship groups, or they don't have a benchmark on what like a good friend looks like?

jenna 26:30

Yes, absolutely. I see it all the time, and it makes me very sad to see it. And at that point, what I like to do with those clients is actually work on self-confidence and like reassurance that they can have healthy relationships. I'm not comparing this at all to like having an abusive relationship 'cause it's not- Yeah the same, but it's in the sense of like you're not gonna find anything else, and the rest of the world is scary without this one person- Yeah so I'm not going to leave the relationship. It's like that but on a far less dramatic level, far less serious level. What I do with those clients is m- helping them to see that they can make friends away from this person. They don't just need this one person who's belittling them, and also to stand up for themselves. Don't take that.

francene 27:15

Yeah.

jenna 27:16

Yeah. You don't need that in your life, and that's not what a good friend looks like, is it?

francene 27:21

No, 100%. And again, I think people just get into, like you mentioned like a relationship. I think people like fall into this, and then it becomes a habit that you accept. And it's you have, say, like in the group, you have that one friend, and you're like, "Oh, they're just a little bit bitchy," and, everyone accepts it versus, as you get older, you're like, "Actually, this is not acceptable."

jenna 27:45

Yeah, and I think 'cause again, as we get older, we have to be so much more conscious of our time and who we spend it with. And so your standard does naturally r- raise- Yeah as you get older. Or at least it should. Because you don't have as much time as you did when you were in college or in high school. So yeah.

francene 28:08

100%. What is the one thing people do that unintentionally pushes potential friends away?

jenna 28:16

The number one thing to push friends away. There's a lot. There's a lot of things that people do that they don't realize they're doing that pushes people away. One thing is what we just talked about is like being secretly jealous- of somebody and then not wanting to spend time with them instead of just talking about their feelings. Which can be scary, but yeah, it's important. And if your friend is a true friend, they will listen.

francene 28:43

Yeah.

jenna 28:45

be there for you. But the other thing is just not committing to hanging out, to, to showing up constantly. That's the number one thing that is pushing people away that they aren't realizing is happening.

francene 28:56

Yeah.

jenna 28:57

Don't expect... If you don't show up for your friend's birthday when you're invited or show up to anything that they're inviting you to for a few months, and then all of a sudden are like, "I want you to come to this thing with me," don't expect them to say yes.

francene 29:11

Yeah. Oh, 100%. Like- Or don't expect- Don't expect them

jenna 29:14

to show up for you unless you are showing up for them.

francene 29:16

Yeah, or continue to get the invite. It's so hard sometimes when you're like, "Okay, I really wanna hang out. When can we hang out?" And to me, the first thing I do is I pull up my calendar. I try and organize myself on my phone. This is a new thing. Yes. Because before I'm not the best. But I'll pick up my phone and be like, "Okay, I have, this free weekend" and then you go back and forth with dates. But there's nothing worse when you constantly have a friend that's "Oh my God, I wanna hang out. I wanna do stuff." And I'm like, "Girl, we're wide open. When are you free?" Oh,

jenna 29:49

my... Yes. Okay, do you wanna know a trick?

francene 29:52

Tell me.

jenna 29:53

This is a trick I tell TikTok all the time. So there is a certain way you can phrase a text to make somebody or help them commit to something instead of just being like, "Hey, let's hang out sometime."

francene 30:05

Yeah.

jenna 30:05

And then putting the onus on the other person to make the plans, tell you when, tell, yeah, tell you when they're free, figure out timing. Do that work upfront, ahead of time. So a kind of text message that I ask my clients to make when they're meeting somebody new- is you start it like this. You say "Hey, Jill. I really loved talking to you at," "X, Y, Z event that we went to." I'm thinking about going to this other festival next Saturday around noon. Do you wanna come with me?

francene 30:38

Oh, I love that. And

jenna 30:39

what I've done is I've given them a time, a place, and an activity without them doing any heavy lifting. All they have to do is say yes or no.

francene 30:48

Yeah.

jenna 30:49

And that's how it works. If you are the one who wants to hang out, make the plan ahead of time. Don't just say "Let's go do something," because adults can't commit to something. They can commit

francene 30:58

to- So true

jenna 30:59

to something else.

francene 30:59

They're like, what are we gonna do? Absolutely. What time?

jenna 31:01

Yes. Yeah, exactly. That's... I use a template, and I send it to people on TikTok. Just say this. And people who DM me on TikTok for advice with people they just met are like, "Oh my God, that worked," and I'm like, "Yeah, I know."

francene 31:14

Yeah, that is- I know it works such, that is a great tip. So what habits do you, what habits do you typically see from people who are naturally good at making friends? So you're obviously one of those individuals. You find it easy to network. So what is it- It's being na- that you're doing?

jenna 31:33

It's being naturally curious. People like to talk about themselves. Even shy people like to talk about themselves. You get them talking about something that they really love, they'll talk about it forever.

francene 31:41

Yeah.

jenna 31:42

And so it's really trying to get curious about them, and then trying to get to a commonality as soon as possible. If someone I met at a coffee shop lives in my area, I'm gonna ask them "Oh, like, where do you live?" And then they'll tell me what their street. I'm like, "Oh, that's really cool." And then I'll... I might say something like, "Oh, I'm so obsessed with this romance fantasy series," like blah, blah, blah. And they might be like, "Oh my God, me too." And that is- that's the point of commonality. And then you can go off and talk about that en- the entire romance fantasy genre. You can talk about certain books with them and recommend things to them. And getting to the point of commonality as soon as possible is always the goal.

francene 32:19

Yeah, that's true.

jenna 32:20

There- But you have to ask when. You have to ask questions to get there. You should be good at asking questions, too.

francene 32:24

There is nothing better, though, when you're talking to someone new and you find something you have in common, and you're like, "Oh my God, I love that, too."

jenna 32:32

It's the best feeling in the world. I just wanna point out, I think there's some lawn people happening in the background. Do you hear any of that?

francene 32:40

No, I don't, and I'm really hoping my baby is not being picked up on sound.

jenna 32:44

Oh, I can hear-

francene 32:44

I'm, like, edging away from her as best I can.

jenna 32:47

No. No, I can't hear her at all. But it's so loud, I'm like, I feel like I've gotten louder because of it. No. Oh, man. No, but yeah, the best feeling in the world is having that feeling of commonality with somebody. Yeah. A complete stranger, because you're like, "Oh, I'm not alone in this thing." It feels so good. And yeah, I just, like part of my work is helping people to have those moments

francene 33:12

Oh, gosh. I'm a Swiftie, and I have to bring this up. One of the things I love about Taylor Swift is how she brought friendships and people together in such a great way. Trading friendship bracelets, oh my God, and the amount of people that would go to her concerts I think on their own, they would meet before. I honestly think she drove an awesome community.

jenna 33:40

And I think that's part of her success- Yeah is that, this commonality that she's created between her fan base. Yeah. I am a recent Swiftie. I'm a newborn Swiftie.

francene 33:50

I love that.

jenna 33:51

Welcome. My sister is a big Swiftie, and last year I went to a Swiftiegeddon party. I don't know if you know what that is, but it's every time Taylor Swift releases an album, there are bars all over the world who have an event for her album release. What? And it's just they only play Taylor Swift the whole time. Oh my gosh. And I went to it, and I was like... And it just, obviously, I was, like, listening to Taylor Swift all night, and just everyone in that bar was just so nice and so friendly.

francene 34:17

Yeah.

jenna 34:17

And I was getting bracelets from people, which was really cool, and I didn't know what that was really about, but I was like, "Am I accepted now?" "Am I one of you?" It just felt really nice. And n- since then I've been trying to understand the lore her history, all of her exes- Yeah what the songs are about. And I think it's gonna take me some time, but I've got some bops I listen to on the repeat now, and I've grown a new respect for her.

francene 34:41

I love that. Oh my gosh, I need to look and see the next time they do something in Houston. Okay, switching a little bit, what is your take on building friendships at work? Do you think, we should keep work and personal life separate? How do you build a relationship where you're still keeping those boundaries?

jenna 35:08

I 100% am on team make friends at work. I think that people who separate their lives, that you don't need to. And I think it's not worth suffering through parts of your job that you might not like alone. And y- I hear all the time with people who work full-time jobs of "Oh, I'm trauma bonding with my coworkers," and I'm like, "Good." So true. As you should be. You should trauma bond with them. And that's how you're gonna get through whatever you're getting through together. It's also what makes you a better team if you really understand the people that are on your team, like whether or not you're in a marketing team, you're a development team. But actually getting to know the people that you're working with only works in your favor. You know how they work. You can work better with them. I studied leadership in college as my minor, and it was, like, the best thing I've done in my education because I got to learn what it, like w- what working in a good team looks like- and how you can be a better team member. And so what that is really getting to know the people around you, and knowing when to lead and when to follow. And sometimes that's what it's also like in a friendship. Like-

francene 36:07

Yeah

jenna 36:07

when to let your friends lead or when to, sit take a backseat on things. And so I think absolutely make friends with your coworkers. There's nothing wrong with it.

francene 36:18

Do you think... This is gonna make it seem like I don't trust people, and I 100% do. But with work, I typically have my barrier up, and it takes me so much longer to build a deeper relationship at work. I feel like I ask questions and I find out about all my colleagues, but I don't necessarily divulge a lot up front. And I have a handful of close friends at work, and then I have a lot of acquaintances.

jenna 36:54

I'm shutting the window.

francene 36:55

Oh no, you're good. Okay. But how, do you think- you should, would you divulge like everything up front with work people or-

jenna 37:09

would you with a- I don't

francene 37:09

wanna sound like

jenna 37:10

a cynic let me ask, would you with a regular friend? Would you just be like, "Here's my life story and my deepest, darkest fears" with someone you just met?

francene 37:18

No.

jenna 37:19

Yeah.

francene 37:19

No, I actually don't think so. I feel like I would- It's

jenna 37:21

the same way with a friendship at work, too Okay. And here's the thing about starting a new job is you're learning a lot up front. Yeah. And your mind is already so occupied with just trying to learn the job that you can make your relationships with people a little bit secondary.

francene 37:36

Yeah.

jenna 37:36

Just take, just give yourself some grace. It's just like moving to a new city. Give yourself some grace and learning the job. And then once you feel like you're in a good routine, then start to branch out, ask people to go to lunch. Yeah, give yourself that grace, and i- it takes more time. Also, I think there's this aspect of masking at work- that some people tend to do.

francene 37:56

Yeah.

jenna 37:57

Where you're, it's like you're one person at work and you're a totally different person outside of work. And you know you're working for a good company when you don't have to do that. You don't have to discern between the two. Yeah, that's so true. You can just be who you are, and you're working. So like one, if you're doing that, and it's very energy consuming to be masking at work, like maybe think "Maybe this isn't the company for me." "Maybe I should go somewhere where like all of me is accepted." And then two learn if you're doing that with the people that you're at work with. Like- Yeah learn if you're, if you are masking in front of your coworkers, and if you are, ask yourself why. Why do you feel like you need to do that? In my last job that I worked, I was a senior project manager at an app development company, and I felt like the way that... I hit this point where I was one person on client calls and a complete other person with my coworkers. Yeah. And I'm like, "I don't like this."

francene 38:55

Yeah.

jenna 38:55

And I was like type A++++ in front of my clients, and then in front of my coworkers it was like a lot more chill. And I'm like- I need to give more of that energy actually into the client meetings, 'cause like A, it's gonna be... I'm not gonna feel as drained after-

francene 39:08

Oh, for sure. Yeah like

jenna 39:09

the actual person when I'm doing this. And B, like I want my coworkers to see me as a human being and not a robot.

francene 39:16

Yeah. And you think about how much time you spend at work, right? And I remember, I, I think around like COVID and then after COVID, I know a lot of like workplaces, and I hate using like buzzwords, but like the psychological safety in work and, what you can talk about and how open you are. And really, like to your point, it's the same with your own friendships. And I think anyone kinda listening to this, if you're not able to open up and say truly how you're feeling if you're going through something hard to like your closest friends- Like I, I wouldn't see that as like a real friendship

jenna 39:58

Or it's a developing friendship. It- Yeah it could be early in the friendship as well, and like- Yeah that's okay. Again, sometimes it is a red flag if you become friends too quickly and then it fizzles out, so there's that aspect too. So it's like building confidence. It doesn't happen all in one day. It comes over the span of weeks or months, and you've gotta be patient with yourself when it comes- Yeah to that. Yeah.

francene 40:21

Do you think like so many more people are working remotely. So I work in an office, so t- again I'm for sure like a people person, and I need that interaction. For people who are working remote or they've just moved to remote roles, how... What advice do you give to build those relationships remotely?

jenna 40:46

Yeah. I think it's actually so interesting. As someone who is, self-employed, I work from home, and part of me really does miss working with people to the point where I wanna do fractional work. I actually would love to work with a company on a project and so I'm able to interact with other people and work on a team with something that aren't people that I've employed-

francene 41:10

Yeah

jenna 41:10

Naturally. I think that's very different than working on a team of people who are at your level as opposed to employing people and working with them. It creates this very different dynamic. But if you're like in a fully remote team and let's say, like, all of your coworkers are all around the world, hop on coffee chats with people. Be like, "Hey," "I saw you in a Slack talking about the new Marvel movies. I love Marvel." "I'm... I wanna make friends here." Yeah. "Or I wanna get to know my coworkers. Do you wanna hop on a coffee call with me?" And get curious about the people that you're working with. You might find out that some of them actually work in your city, and you're like, "Oh," "let's go work together at a WeWork or something." It might surprise you, but you've gotta branch out, especially- Yeah if socializing is really important to you. And then every time your company has a "Come to the office, we're gonna do fun stuff," like- Yeah, go in try and go to that. Yeah. It's fun. It- they're fun things. Like my boyfriend, he goes into his office like once a month when they're doing happy hours and fun activities, and I'm like, "Yeah, that's absolutely when I would go into the office and do those things."

francene 42:12

Oh, 100%, yeah.

jenna 42:13

Yeah.

francene 42:14

That's what you want, especially when you're so used to, typically that working relationship is, you're doing your job and, especially remote, if you're only on Zoom calls or Team calls, it's so hard outside of that. But it's making the effort, right?

jenna 42:29

Yeah. And the other... Something also that's fun to do is during the pandemic, when my company was really small and I had just joined, I had literally joined, and a month later the pandemic hit- yeah, it was wild. And the company was really small, and so every Friday we would do a happy hour social over- Ah Zoom, where we just play games, and- That's fun everyone makes a fun cocktail and shows up, and we have r- we play Quiplash, and, like, all these fun team games or multiplayer games. And, those are actually really fun. I loved playing Quiplash with my coworkers That

francene 43:04

is so cool

jenna 43:05

it was such a great time. And you can choose to be the person that organizes those things.

francene 43:09

Yeah. Yeah, true.

jenna 43:10

If socializing with your coworkers is really something that's important to you-

francene 43:14

Yeah, take the lead don't

jenna 43:15

be afraid to take the lead. Yeah, exactly.

francene 43:18

And then, so for anyone listening who is in a phase of their life where they want to go th- they wanna either branch out of their, current friendship group, they're trying to make friends, they maybe moved to a new place, what is your take on using friendship apps?

jenna 43:41

I was actually just talking to somebody about Bumble and even dating apps in general. And we were talking a little bit about this earlier. But for some context, I, y- I worked for an app development company for five years before I be- do what I do today, and I learned everything there is to know about dating app profiles, algorithms what companies are trying to get you to do on dating apps so that you use them more. And sometimes those are not as fun.

francene 44:13

Yeah.

jenna 44:14

And I ended up learning a lot about what to put on your profile to get people to want to connect with you.

francene 44:21

Yeah.

jenna 44:22

And honestly, go for it. Use it the right way, and use it intentionally. Don't make a profile, go on it for an hour, and then stop. Like-

francene 44:31

Yeah

jenna 44:31

you have to dedicate okay for an hour today, I'm gonna flip through profiles, and I'm gonna reach out to people, see where that gets me. And you don't have to do this every single day. You can just do it twice a week.

francene 44:42

Yeah.

jenna 44:42

See what people say anything. Don't feel like you have to put your 110% into it immediately, but just be intentional about using it. And on your profile specifically show that you can make your own fun. And this goes the same for a dating profile too. Anyone out there who is also single who is on the apps make it look like you're having so much fun, and make it look like you can have your own fun, and you can... you should never be responsible for someone else's happiness.

francene 45:13

Yeah.

jenna 45:13

But you are responsible for yours, and I think that's the most- my boyfriend on Hinge is he just looked like he was having such a fun time on his profile, and so did I. And I was like, this person knows how to have their own fun. This person knows how to... They know what makes them happy. Yeah. And they're enjoying life, and that's really attractive. But then for my friends, like I also want my friends to go out. I wanna go do things with them. I wanna go have adventures, and, I wanna plan those t- girls' trips, and I wanna, go to a country I've never been to with them. And if I want that's what I'm gonna put in my profile, too, that I also like to do those things. You've got to- Yeah Put out into the universe what you want to attract.

francene 45:58

Yeah, I think you're right. And I also think, too, is setting up something like that, and to your point being intentional, also ensuring that you will make yourself available to f- you know, do the plans that you are going back and forth with the person that you're connecting with, right?

jenna 46:17

Yeah. I- it's all about being intentional. Don't think you're just gonna show up in a new city and just by happenstance make new friends. Yeah, and of course that does happen. That's awesome. But be intentional about it. Yeah. And that requires you to get out of your house X amount of times a week to go to a club and intentionally meet people. And also not being afraid to say, "I wanna make friends." I actually did that the other day. I was at this smoothie p- this smoothie shop down the street from me, and I was in line getting a smoothie and waiting. There's this girl who was sitting down in on a bench waiting for a smoothie, and I sat down next to her, and we started talking. I found out she lives really close by. She's got really fun, bubbly energy, and so do I. And in Los Angeles, a lot of my friends live pretty far away. I've got friends who live 45 minutes plus from me, and not a lot of local friends. So personally for me, I'm trying to make more local friends that are-

francene 47:11

Yeah

jenna 47:11

I can walk to their house or things like that. That's my goal. And so we chatted for five minutes, and I was like, "Hey I'm always looking to make friends in th- the area. What's your number?" Like-

francene 47:22

Oh, I love that "If you

jenna 47:22

wanna hang out let's hang out sometime." And so yeah, she was like, "Yeah, that'd be so fun." She used to live down the street of an old apartment I used to live at, and I was like, "I know your neighborhood," and things like that. And yeah, I just wasn't afraid to say it, and I'm never gonna be afraid to say it, and nor should anyone else. Set your intentions. I am, I'm looking to make friends. It's perfectly fine to say that. No one's gonna think you're weird. Y- you might think that people think you're weird or they're gonna, or that other people think, oh oh, they don't have friends or something's wrong with them. That's not, that's never the case. Never the case.

francene 47:56

But I, so what, one of the things I feel I'm gonna take from this conversation is also taking a step back and thinking about, like you just mentioned some, like goals on what are my friendship goals? And even if you have like existing groups, it's okay, do you want to add to that? Is there, something you're looking for more when it comes to your friendships? Are you looking for, like you mentioned, like girls trips? I wonder how many people are having those kind of thoughts and evaluations about their lives, and then setting those intentions

jenna 48:40

Yeah. If you're, if you are somebody who is doing that, like amazing. You're very introspective. And I think it is really- Yeah, no, like I haven't y- yeah I think it is important to sit down and give yourself some time. Like sure, do some journaling or like I can even ask you certain questions that'll make you come to some realizations in your friendships.

francene 48:58

Yeah.

jenna 48:59

And, really seeing if is this what I want out of friendships? Like in my ideal world, what does this look like? And I've had to do that, I do that in every different stage of my life. So like when I was working a 95, 9 to 5, my friendship goals were different. Now that I work for myself- my friendship goals are different too. Like what do I want out of my friendships in this stage of my life? And that doesn't mean necessarily new friends. It could just mean different kinds of things to do with my current friends.

francene 49:25

Yeah.

jenna 49:25

And like in my ideal world, I would love to have my group of friends I already have now, and I have friends in different circles, which I can talk about that too. But I would love for us to all be able to meet more frequently, and that's because in LA, again, you have to drive everywhere. And that sucks out so much energy.

francene 49:48

Yeah. And I

jenna 49:48

have to

francene 49:49

go full time. Traffic as well, yeah.

jenna 49:50

Exactly. So it's if you're gonna go hang out with your friend for two hours but you have to drive to them an hour away, you're actually-

francene 49:55

Yeah, you have four hours

jenna 49:56

dedicating... It's four hours instead. And LA says that we're gonna get better public transportation soon. I hope that's true. So I wanna have like friends with, I want my friends to meet more frequently. Like those are the things that matter to me. And then also like making friends locally with people who I can see them more frequently.

francene 50:16

Yeah, or like easily and walkable, right?

jenna 50:20

Yeah. Exactly. And I think I'm the kind of person who has circles of friends, so not all my friends are in the same circle.

francene 50:28

But

jenna 50:28

I'm really good with vibe checking, so friends in different circles, I get them together all the time, and they mesh really well, and everyone hangs out really well together. Like I'm never worried about friends causing drama or like these two friends not getting along. Everyone gets along really well.

francene 50:43

Oh my God, I love that. I was actually gonna ask 'cause I'm also, I like having friends in different circles, and I feel like again, you're gonna have a group of friends who you're like, "I know I can pick up the phone and be like, 'Hey, let's go to this concert tomorrow.'" And you're gonna people that say yes. You're gonna have other individuals, and I, like I kinda like that, but it's rare that my friends all mix. If I'm honest it makes me anxious. Is that normal?

jenna 51:12

Is it... So let me ask you if, what are you anxious about exactly? Is there a hypothetical situation that might happen?

francene 51:19

No, I think it's just more- different groups and I've just always kept it separate. And I feel like if I brought them together, I'd be like, "Oh," "Are they gonna get along?" And not because I don't think they wouldn't, but I feel like because you're hosting something like that, I would feel responsible for- everyone getting on and vibing and I don't know.

jenna 51:42

Could you flip that on its head a bit and instead of thinking about getting your friends together and being anxious of what could happen, being excited about what could happen? Yeah. Thinking about the possibilities of your friends g- actually getting along and you guys having a really good time, and focusing on that energy going into it

francene 52:01

Yes, 100%. Yeah. Do you also though, just curious on just with your experience, like if you... So say hypothetically I mix all the friends in one big group, I sometimes think having different groups and keeping it separate allows you to, in a way, dip in and out, but allows you, I don't know, like separation from like certain situations. Or you might have people that bring a little bit more drama, so it's like I see them less often than these other people. Do you see that as like it's healthy keeping it separate? I'm obviously trying to justify my thought. Yeah. I'm like, "Justify this for me."

jenna 52:49

But- I will be challenging you. Do

francene 52:51

it. That's what I do. I love it.

jenna 52:53

I think that it really depends. If you have a friend that causes a lot of drama and you mix them with your friends that don't cause a lot of drama-

francene 53:00

Yeah

jenna 53:01

sometimes y- it really s- would surprise you. I have a friend who's like super into tea, and they get themselves in drama all the time. But when I mix them with my friends who are very drama-free, those drama-free friends love hearing about the tea from this person. They love hearing about all the crazy stuff they've gone into. Yeah. And it actually ends up being really fun for them.

francene 53:20

Yeah.

jenna 53:20

So this might surprise you. People will surprise you. You can't control what happens. And it could just be an experiment where you're like, "I'm gonna get these two friends together, see what happens. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. That's okay." Yeah. There's no bad

francene 53:30

consequence. Happy to try to.

jenna 53:32

There are no consequences, yeah.

francene 53:34

That is awesome. Okay, so you've made me think about a number of things. I think certainly creating a goal and really thinking about that, and then also thinking about how my friendships are in this period of my life and what I want to not get out of this, but I think be more intentional about. And then I think mixing. I will take that for sure. Okay,

jenna 53:59

good. Good. And let me know how it goes. Please message me on Instagram.

francene 54:03

Yeah, I will. Be like,

jenna 54:04

I mixed these two friends together, and actually it was a really great time." I wanna hear those things.

francene 54:08

Yeah, I will. So for anyone who is looking for more advice from you or coaching, what, like what steps should they take?

jenna 54:20

Definitely DM me on the socials. So I've got TikTok and Instagram, and although I haven't been posting a lot in the last few months, that's gonna be picking up again soon. I'm still there. I still answer DMs. I'm still interacting with people. It's just the posting thing, I've had a lot of other things going on in my life I've needed to prioritize, so I'm gonna come back to it. Yeah. But DM me. I'm still there. I'm, I still check. And let's talk about what you're going through. And I never wanna pressure people into my coaching. It's completely voluntary, obviously. But it's just like talking to a friend about what you're going through, and that's the kind of environment that I like to create with my clients is they can just be who they are. Yeah. And there's no pressure. And yes, I'm going to push them a little bit to do things that maybe they haven't done before, but they're gonna come out the other end having friends and having a community, and I think that is something that will benefit them throughout their whole life,

francene 55:16

oh. Oh my gosh. I 100% agree, and I think sometimes you gotta, in order, to your point, to get to that kinda next step, you gotta push yourself out of your comfort zone, and sometimes it gets uncomfortable. But I think- even like some of the comments you've made, it's, made me reflect or think a little bit differently. And if we don't have that outside perspective or outside kind of viewpoint, it's like how often are we reflecting or really thinking about it? 'Cause I don't sit randomly throughout the day and think, "Oh, let me just go through my friends and think about, these interactions," or, it I'm not, I'm always in the moment. But what I will say is there are times I come away from my friends and I think, "Was I filled up there?" 'Cause I always think you should walk away feeling good and happy. And of course, there's gonna be times in life where your friends are going through things or you are, and it's heavy. But you still feel filled up and you get good energy. And if you don't, that to me is a telltale sign of, "Okay, there's something not right here. What is it? What can I do?"

jenna 56:37

And that's really good intuition. And the fact that you're asking yourself those questions is awesome. I, it's impor- it, not that we need to all sit down and think about our friendships. It's, it doesn't have to be that introspective. Yeah. Actually, in some regards, if you're not thinking about your friendships a lot, it could actually be a good thing. It could mean like things are good in that department.

francene 56:54

Yeah.

jenna 56:55

And that's fine. If you're thinking about them a lot, and it's coming from a place of anxiety, then yes, sit down and see where that's coming from.

francene 57:02

Yeah.

jenna 57:03

And then genuinely think about if it's coming from you or if it is coming from the other person. Like, where is this r- really coming from? Where did this start? So that you're not accusatory towards anyone. Yeah. You're not blaming people for things. It really could just be a you thing that you need to work on, and that's okay. You have friends to help you through that.

francene 57:21

Oh, 100%. And so often, as we, continue to get older we also change. Our friends are changing, but we change. And I think what you may have accepted or been happy with five years ago, 10 years ago, is very different now. How you spent your time 10 years ago is different now. So I think it's healthy to be thinking about it and again, being intentional. But I have loved talking to you. Thank you so much for your time. Of course. I feel like I could talk to you, like, all day. This has been so easy. I can understand- We were both

jenna 58:00

yappers,

francene 58:01

for sure. Yeah. I'm like, I can understand how people would find it easy to- open up to you, and I also appreciate you challenge in a nice manner. But yeah, you're awesome, so thank you.

jenna 58:16

I've had such a great time. Thank you for having me on.

francene 58:18

Yay. And I hope everyone listening also found this beneficial.

jenna 58:24

Thanks for having me on.