Real Beauty with FD

Real Beauty: Explaining IVF with Jessica

• francene davidson • Season 7 • Episode 6

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This week I had the opportunity to speak with Jessica from @explainingIVF 

This was an account I found after starting IVF, which was so helpful! Educational with FACTS! 

As you will tell from this episode, I learned so much from this conversation! 

Connect with me at @francenejdavidson

Welcome to Real Beauty with fd a space where beauty goes far beyond the surface. Here we explore what beauty really means from the products we can't live without. To the stories that shape who we are From the cult favorite skincare to confidence from glowing on the outside, to navigating life. On the inside, we're diving into conversations that don't always get said out loud. Fertility journeys, evolving, friendships, motherhood, and everything in between. Because real beauty is found in resilience and vulnerability and in the moments that change us. Think of this as your place to discover your little black dress and beauty. Those go-to products, rituals, and mindsets that make you feel like you, while also learning to truly feel at home in your skin. Each episode I sit down with inspiring women to talk about beauty, life and the stories that define them. This is real beauty, unfiltered, honest, and yours. I'm fd and I'm so glad you're here. So before we get into today's episode, we will go over our weekly reset. Just a few honest moments from the past week, something that filled me up, something that felt heavy, and one thing I'm carrying forward. This week I had the opportunity to go. Shopping with a load of gift vouchers from 19th Street in the Heights in Houston. It's one of my favorite streets. They have. Everything you could think of from gift shops to furniture, from hair salons, to restaurants, bars clothing, like literally everything jam packed in one street, and I love it. And in February, I entered a competition. For Valentine's Day, and I won gift certificates for each of these businesses, so I had kept hold of it as I really wanted to make a day of it. And me and my best friend Anne met for lunch and then we went shopping and it was so nice because as I mentioned in the last. Several episodes. Clearly I have like a shopping problem. But it was nice being able to kind of do it a little bit more guilt free. Although yes, I got amazing gift vouchers. I did spend a little bit of money too, but it was so worth it. something heavy. So these last couple of days I have been housebound and um, I say that without sounding super dramatic, but my car is currently getting repairs. So this is day three in the house and. This is not for me. I have to admit, like I cannot be that person that just sits around at home. And of course, I've not been sitting around like I've, you know, done stuff. I've done activities tried to keep myself busy, but. Oh my God. I, I honestly feel like if the car is not ready today, I dunno how I'm gonna feel about tomorrow. And again, I know this is a time of rest, relaxing, all that shit, I hear it, but I physically and mentally just can't. So anyway, fingers crossed for tomorrow. Something I am carrying forward. Now let's deep dive into the edit. So a few things I've been reaching for, watching or loving lately. So I actually just watched. The Devil Wears Prada. And no, not for the first time. I have seen it so many times over the years, and of course I am super excited about the Devil Wears Prada too, coming out. So I thought, you know, what a perfect time since I'm at home and bored, let's go to movie room and we'll watch a Devil Warrior Prada. And honestly, every time I watch it, I just love it more and more the storyline, the fashion, ugh. It's like every girl's. Dream to be able to just get given that amazing wardrobe. Like imagine working at Vogue and going into like the closet and just being able to like pull things like, ugh. I couldn't think of anything better, to be honest. And that is like one of the things I am missing, dare I say that about work, is I used to love just putting outfits together and being like, okay, tomorrow this is what I'm gonna wear work. And I love the different accessories, the like elements of the outfit. And I'm, I am really looking forward to that again. But until then, I will continue in this little period of, am I wearing pajamas or is it active wear? Unsure. Is it both? Probably. The other thing I am constantly reaching for is. The skincare brand Tula, I am such a big fan of their IBM. So they now brought out, I think at the end of last year, of course, just in time for Christmas for buying presents. But they brought out a new range of this and they added caffeine into it. So I think they called it like espresso. Sticks or something, and each of them have different pigments. So one is like gold, another one is rose gold, another one is more kind of white, clear, if you will. And then there's more of like a bronze one prior to them bringing this out, I used the rose ibam. Every day. Like every single day. That is the last thing I do with regards to my skincare. I have a small mini beauty fridge that I hold everything in. And it is just the best product, like to the point where I don't wear a concealer. Every day. The only time I wear makeup is if I am kind of going out, out because I'm lazy, fair. But it honestly just brings the right amount of under eye kinda coverage. Wake up, highlight. I don't know what it does, but. It is amazing and I highly recommend it. And this is something that I've continued to buy over the years to the extent that I always have a spare stick to ensure that the minute I run out, I have something else that I can just pull out and be like, okay we're good to go. So I promise that is like a true recommendation from my skincare have another. Recommendation, but this time it is makeup. So there is a beauty brand called Hung Van Gogh Beauty. I had actually never heard of it before, but I just purchased my second lipstick from this brand called Wild Rose and. When I tell you this, lipstick is creamy. It is amazing pigmentation. It has incredible coverage, and my God does it last. I also have. The other original lipstick that I bought that I saw on L Tyler called Van Gogh Red, and it is just like a stunning red. So yeah, if you are looking for a new lipstick, I highly recommend. And I believe at the moment with Sephora, they have like 20% off right now. So yeah, I highly recommend, but. Without further ado, let's get into this week's episode. Jessica is someone that I started following on Instagram when I was going through IVF last year. Now, full disclosure, going into IVF, I knew a couple of people who had gone through it. But I feel like until you truly go through it, you're not asking the right questions to your friends. You're mainly asking things like, oh my God, were the injections? Okay. Like, how did you find it like. Emotionally you know, the results, like I, I feel like you're asking really like surface questions because you don't truly know what to expect and what truly to ask that will help you. So she was one of the accounts that I found on Instagram just going through this journey. And what I love so much, and you can search for her on Instagram, it's at explaining IVF and literally she will break everything down and put together amazing videos, explanations, and just talking about it from like a matter of fact on what to expect. And I just found it so refreshing and so helpful just to be able to. Kinda help put things into perspective, I guess, but also take away the emotion side and really just look at it from like a science standpoint and maybe come at it a bit more logical, which is very difficult in that situation, especially when you're in it. But I just re I wanted to understand and clearly, you know, after having this conversation with Jessica, there was still so much that. You know, I still have questions on that. She was beyond helpful in answering and kind of going into more detail, but the whole purpose of getting her onto the pod was to create more awareness into these conversations and kinda highlight that there are accounts out there that you can go follow and find out more, especially if you're starting this journey. You're going through this journey, you're thinking about this, I just really hope that this is helpful because I personally would've found this helpful. Yeah. Enjoy. Thank you for listening.

FRANCENE

Thank you so much by the way, for taking the time to speak with me.

JESSICA

Oh, thank you for thinking of me. I appreciate it.

FRANCENE

Oh, yes, I am ready to deep dive and get all the information.

JESSICA

Great.

FRANCENE

And then, yeah, just for some background,'cause I don't think I mentioned this when I reached out to you, so I went through IVF at the start of this year, oh, sorry, not this year, last year which was successful. It was like my first time going through it. And then we actually have a. Four week old baby now. Which has been amazing. But like going through the process, I will tell you, I went in very ignorant, not really wanting to know,'cause I wanted to go through step by step versus I don't know, feeling overwhelmed, but now I've gone through it. I look back and I'm like, oh my gosh, it was amazing what can be done. Yeah. Like amazing. And I don't think we speak enough about it or allow space for truly understanding what kind of goes on behind the scenes, and that's why I wanted to go into these types of conversations.

JESSICA

Great. Congratulations too. That's amazing.

FRANCENE

Thank you. Yeah. We are beyond grateful for the science and just the fact that we're able to do that, to be honest.

JESSICA

Yeah.

FRANCENE

Alright, let me dive in welcome Jessica to Real Beauty with fd. For today's episode is for anyone who has ever gone through IVF or are looking to go into IVF. And they might feel confused, intimidating or even ashamed of not truly understanding what is happening behind the scenes. So this is why I was really excited to speak to Jessica today, who has made it her mission to explain IVF in a way that actually makes sense. So welcome Jessica.

JESSICA

Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

FRANCENE

Yeah. So tell me, how did you decide you wanted to go into this field of work?

JESSICA

I learned about embryology when I was in high school. I had to do a project that was what do you want to be when you grow up a field, of kind of a, an exercise that they had us do. And I did some research. I knew I wanted to do something in women's health, but I also knew I really liked biology and the lab side of things. And I did a little bit of diving and I learned about embryology and I just like instantly fell in love with it and I said, this is what I really wanna do. But that was a little while ago it wasn't something that was as well known as it is now. And the field itself was still growing and I didn't really know how I would become an embryologist. I just know I knew I wanted to. And that kind of set it in motion. I went to. School and then I actually went to get my master's at Colorado State University. They have a great master's program that actually has a program that specializes in assisted reproductive technologies. And from there I was able to get a job right out of school at a fertility clinic in North Carolina and worked there for four years before moving back home to Pittsburgh. And I've been working ever since 2018 as an embryologist.

FRANCENE

That's amazing. I can I wonder how much has changed from when you went into the field versus like now.'cause I can imagine it's forever evolving.

JESSICA

Absolutely. So I'm 33 I did this when I was in high school, so probably middle to late teens. So it's been a little bit, and even just the number of clinics has expanded so much in that time. You think that really IVF has not been around that long. It's relatively new in the field of science, so it's grown so much over the last, even just few years. Since I've been in the field. But right when I first started looking, I thought, wow, it's gonna take a lot to be an embryologist. There aren't a lot of embryologists out there, and I know I'm gonna have to really work hard. And you still do, of course. But now there are a lot more job opportunities, more locations. It used to be, fertility clinics. People would travel to big cities, for IVF, Boston and New York. But now it's more readily available. The jobs are there too. So it's great for both people who need to do IVF and also for people who want to work in the field.

FRANCENE

Oh my gosh, a hundred percent. Like the more I promote. People being able to have access to this and for this just to be kind of part of your kinda healthcare is, yes. I love that it continues to grow. So what surprised you most when you entered this field? Like obviously you had an interest, that's one of the reasons why you wanted to kinda go into this space. But was there anything that surprised you?

JESSICA

Definitely, I had a little bit of training at school, so I knew what to expect in terms of the technical, the process, the different steps. I knew that there would be a lot of hands-on training. One thing I don't think they prepare you for though, is when you really. Get to know some of the patients that you're working with. And you see their stories. And I re and that really opened me up to the emotional side of things, which I think is something that a textbook can't teach you. You could sit there all day and do IVF, but then when you really you. Sit there and you think this is someone's egg. This is someone's embryo. Someone's life is being changed by what you're doing. Yeah. I think that really puts it all into perspective and shows it's a really important and rewarding job. But I don't know. It's just the first, time that we had a baby that was born from, an embryo that I helped create. It was, it changes things. I don't know, you just it puts everything into perspective in a way that just makes the job even better.

FRANCENE

Oh my gosh, yes. To be part of that process and helping people create families, like I can't even imagine how rewarding that must be. So in your like, day to day, tell me what does that look like? Because you are the one. L like, I don't know the terminology, but like fertilizing the egg in order to grow that embryo. What does that process look like?

JESSICA

Yeah, so really an IVF cycle in the lab from the time the egg is retrieved from o, the eggs are retrieved from a woman's ovary until the time an embryo can be transferred. Really. I should say that differently. A typical IVF cycle now, because it's a little bit different now than it used to be. It's really only about seven days in the lab from the time that an embryo or an egg is retrieved from the ovaries to the time where an embryo can be frozen. It's actually about seven days, and sometimes it's shorter and longer. There are a lot of caveats of course, but really it's a seven day process. So sometimes our days look like checking on embryos that have been growing for a couple of days. Other days it's retrieving those eggs and fertilizing them or inseminating them in hopes that they'll fertilize. Other times it's freezing and then other times it's totally not in that seven day realm where we actually have embryos that are frozen that we thaw at a later date and we transfer them as well. So there's a lot that goes on. You have to. Keep up with the embryos that are growing. You have to know what's on the schedule for that day in terms of the transfers and the retrievals, and you have to time your day out according to what's happening in the lab. Exactly. What I usually do in the morning is I come in and I make sure that anything that we inseminated the day before fertilized, and then we also check on the embryos that are growing to see how they're doing, to see if they're ready to be. Frozen or biopsied if a person's doing genetic testing. And then from there we look at the embryos that need to be transferred that day. We wanna haw them early to make sure that they fall well for the transfer later. We do retrievals in the morning and that way we have time later to let the eggs sit before we inseminate them. And so typically the mornings are a lot of checks. We do our biopsies, we freeze our embryos. We do our embryo falls. If there are transfers, we do our retrievals and then the afternoon slides into doing those transfers, inseminating those eggs, finishing up anything that we didn't get done in the morning. And then of course putting things in the computer. Yeah, that's a big part of it too, is, data entry. It's something we don't think about, but it is very time consuming as well because, for every single egg you have to make sure everything's documented correctly. And and some clinics. We also do call with updates, so we do that too. And not every clinic does that, but that's the normal part of the day too. And then keeping up with the background stuff too. We have quality control we have to do every day. We have maintenance, we have to do inventory ordering, things like that. So the days are always eventful.

FRANCENE

And I can imagine it's just such a big responsibility for looking after the embryos. Like even just going through the process and. Going into it and I guess we can talk about the transfer like in a second, but. I remember when we went to do the egg retrieval for me I did, honestly, I was pretty ignorant going into it, and I purposely wanted to be that way. I didn't wanna read anything.'cause when you start seeing, oh, on average people get this many eggs, and then if you don't, and like immediately, I feel like you're setting yourself up for failure sometimes. But what do you typically see? When it comes to like egg retrievals, like what is the kind of average, what does that look like? And then also can you just talk through as you work through that process? One of the things that I wasn't aware of is once you pull the eggs, I was like, oh good, I have a certain amount of eggs. You're like, no. That changes as you continue to go through the process of. Testing or I know there are other kinda technical pieces, but I didn't appreciate that. I didn't realize that whatever you start with will come down considerably and I don't think a lot of women maybe have that education also.

JESSICA

Absolutely and no, that, that's something I get asked about a lot. Like we call it the IVF funnel. Yeah. Because that's really what it is. It's the IVF. It's the attrition rates at each stage of the process. So to answer your first question about the average number of eggs that are retrieved, there are a lot of factors that really can play into that. I think that a good average number is really anywhere from about 10 to 15. Okay. However, younger women tend in general to have more eggs that are retrieved while women who are. Older tend to have less eggs that are retrieved. And that's because egg quality and quantity both decline over time. So we know, I think it's something that's becoming pretty well known. Yeah. We know that with time there tends to be a decline in the number of eggs in a woman's ovaries, and that's just a natural a natural decline that happens. Depending on the age, that could be a factor. Women who do have PCOS do sometimes tend to have more eggs that are retrieved than normal or average, and then, there are some people who have other other things that might be causing less eggs to be retrieved as well. Something like primary ovarian insufficiency is something where even younger women have less eggs retrieved than what is considered average. But really, the number is important, but really at the end of the day, what we're aiming for is one healthy embryo, a cycle. That's what we really consider to be a successful cycle, right? One, one healthy embryo, and then ultimately one healthy pregnancy. So you know the number is important, but it's not everything. Even sometimes if you have a high number, that doesn't necessarily mean you'll have a lot of embryos. Even if you have a low number of eggs retrieved, you could still get. One or even more healthy embryos. So I always like to say that because the numbers, like you said it's almost impossible to not look at the numbers even when you really don't want to and then you start playing the comparison game. And that can be dangerous. Yes. Yeah.

FRANCENE

Yes. And also like to your point, really the aim is to get. That one.

JESSICA

Yeah.

FRANCENE

The one that is healthy. So when you go through the tests, how do you know from like a quality standpoint, like how the embryo is performing? I don't know if that's right term.

JESSICA

No, that's a good question. We'll actually I'll back it up with the Egg Act. Actually because every egg that is retrieved is actually not able to be fertilized. So a lot of people think, okay, I got 10 eggs retrieved, so that means, 10 will fertilize. That's might not even be true though because the eggs need to be at a certain level of development for us to even be able to inseminate them or deferred for them to fertilize. So we call these mature eggs, and I won't go into too much detail about it, but eggs go through something called miosis. It's their cell division, Uhhuh, and they have to be at a certain. Stage of that meiosis in order for them to be fertilized by a sperm and not every egg that is retrieved is typically at that stage, we expect maybe somewhere from about 70 to 80% of the eggs that are retrieved to be mature. So 70 to 80% are able to be inseminated. And so the most common form of insemination that we do now is something called II intracytoplasmic sperm injection. Some people still do conventional insemination where eggs and sperm are co incubated overnight in an incubator in the hopes that the sperm will fertilize the egg more similar to what happens in the body. But most clinics now do move toward ixi, and that's because it guarantees that a sperm gets into the egg. It's definitely more recommended when there's male infertility present because. Lower sperm numbers or lower motility or more abnormal sperm tend to not do as well with conventional insemination versus II and ix. They just helps overcome some of the barriers that might be faced when it comes to fertilization. So most clinics do still do ixy now to inseminate the eggs, but again, we. The eggs to be mature?

FRANCENE

Yeah.

JESSICA

So we will we'll inseminate them and then we'll check them the following day to see if they fertilize properly. And we have a couple markers that we look for nor normal fertilization. We expect anywhere from about 50 to 80% of the eggs that we've inseminated to fertilized properly. We started out with 10 eggs retrieved, maybe eight of them were mature. And now we're looking at, maybe six or seven of them that might have fertilized properly. So already we're seeing a little bit of that attrition. So from there, we let the embryos grow for a couple of days because at this point they're a single cell embryo, and at that point they'll start to undergo cell division called mitosis. And so that one cell will replicate its DNA make two cells with identical DNA. Those cells will replicate to four than eight and so on. Every lab's a little bit different, but what we really look for is around day five of development. So five days later we expect. We hope at least that the embryo will enter what's called the blast assist stage of development. And this is where a lot of that grading comes in. Yes. That people talking about. Yeah. Yeah. So we expect really anywhere from about 30 to 50% of the exit fertilize to develop into. Usable blast assist and that means blast assist. That would be okay to transfer. So we don't wanna transfer something that doesn't, that isn't growing properly, that doesn't have enough cells or, so we need them to be at a certain stage of development, but we also need them to look a certain way, and that's when we start to grade them. Clinics have different scales, but a very common one is something called the Gardner Scale, where we can say, okay, that. That embryo has reached the blast is a stage of development on day five or six or seven. But here's what it looks like. Maybe it's a little bit earlier, maybe it's a little bit later. Maybe it has more cells than normal. Maybe it has less cells than normal, and that's where we get that grading. But again, about 30 to 50% is what we're expecting. So if we're lucky, if you had 10 eggs retrieved. You might have eight that we could inseminate. We might have six that fertilize. We might end up with three embryos that we're able to work with. And that could mean transferring them. That could mean doing a biopsy for genetic testing called PGT or that could mean freezing them. So 30 to 50% would be eligible for any of those steps basically. And then, from there, if you do genetic testing, we want the embryos to be genetically normal. Which is a whole big conversation, but essentially we take a couple cells from the embryo, we send them to a genetic testing company, and they tell us if the if there are any major genetic. Abnormalities with the chromosomes in the cells of those embryos. And that is also very dependent on age as well. So again, with age we tend to see less embryos that are genetically normal than we would for someone who's younger. But there are a lot of factors that can go into that as well. But that is the primary factor. And a lot of people do elect to do genetic testing because if you transfer an embryo that is considered abnormal, it has a very high chance for not implanting or miscarrying. And so once again, those numbers can decline. Even if you have three embryos that you're, you get or three blasts that are good quality, they might not all be genetically normal. And then of course, even if you do a transfer, there's still not always a chance that one will implant. So there is a lot of drop off. And every person is very different. These are just averages I've seen way more, I've seen way less. But that's a general rule of thumb that we follow for that.

FRANCENE

That is so helpful. Thank you so much for explaining that.'cause again, I think there's a lot of information out there, but it's finding the right information to understand what that process looks like so you can set yourself up for. Having a better appreciation, right? Yeah. Because I think that's the biggest shock when you're like, oh, great, we have X amount. And then I was fortunate enough with the clinic I worked with, they gave an update every time. You kind of work through the process and I was like, oh my God, we've like just dropped half. Yeah. Are we okay? Is this gonna be okay? And it's, it can make you feel way more anxious if you don't have that understanding prior.

JESSICA

I think setting realistic expectations is important. Sometimes when I talk to people, I say something like, we got two embryos today, and that's really great. If we get anything else, that would be a bonus. It's not something that we might expect based on the numbers, but if you get it that's a bonus and that's great. If you don't though you, you're already right where you need to be in terms of the statistics. So yeah, having those realistic expectations, I do think helps because. I always feel bad when I talk to someone and I give them their report and it might be a good report, but still they're like, oh, I was expecting more. And then I go through the whole process and they're like, oh, okay. Actually then I'm doing pretty well. And I say yes. Yes. Overall, it might not seem like a lot, but it's, yeah.

FRANCENE

It's not

JESSICA

a perfect science. Yeah.

FRANCENE

And then when it comes to freezing the embryos, how long? Can you keep them frozen for what does that look like?

JESSICA

So the process itself is really easy. What we actually do is we put the embryos that are ready to be frozen into a, it's called a, like a freezing solution, and it pulls water out of the cells and it coats them with a cryoprotectant agent, which basically means we take the water out so ice crystals can't form because that can damage the cells. But then we coat the cells with something that keeps. Safe while they're frozen. And they're frozen in liquid nitrogen. So liquid nitrogen is about 109 negative 196 degrees Celsius. It's very cold. Wow. The embryos can stay frozen indefinitely. In fact just a few months ago a baby was born from donated embryos that were frozen. 20 plus years ago. I can't remember the exact, but yeah. Because when they're in liquid nitrogen, all of their cellular activity is completely halted. Like they don't develop it all. So they're essentially frozen in time. And whenever you do fall them, what you do is you remove that cryoprotectant, you put water back into the cells and you give those embryos what they need to continue developing. And they resume development at that point. Yeah.

FRANCENE

Do you know that's one of the things I wish I had a better understanding of when I was. Younger to potentially go through like the egg freezing process versus,'cause I understand everyone's different and I think there's more and more conversations about infertility and people coming forward and being like, okay, I'm struggling. And, I think from a statistic standpoint, a lot more people are having kids when they're older. But I think if. If it was me, I would've loved to have gone and like frozen my eggs when I was younger.

JESSICA

Yeah. I love that people are talking about this more because even just a couple of years ago, egg freezing was not something that was routinely done. It's becoming so much more common now, and I think that's really wonderful because my heart always really does break when people who come in who are older, and they say, if I had only known

FRANCENE

yeah,

JESSICA

earlier. I would have frozen my eggs or I would, if I had only known this was going to happen I would've done this earlier. And that really, that's one of the main reasons that I started, my Instagram page. And what really started that was letting people know that, hey, this is happening in your body, whether you know it or not. And I would never push someone to freeze their eggs. But if it's even something that you're thinking about,

FRANCENE

yeah.

JESSICA

Talk to a doctor, know what your options are, and it could really save you a lot of heartache down the road. And I think that a lot of people who do IVF later and maybe have to do multiple cycles or ultimately end up unable to, find success with IVF, I think that they would probably agree that, had someone push them when they were a little bit younger to do it then could have made a big difference.

FRANCENE

Yeah. Yes, a hundred percent. The other thing I was gonna ask is, oh. Or say is, talking about like egg freezing and IVF. So with the company that I work for, I actually didn't realize they offered some coverage in IVF. And it wasn't until I was having a conversation with a colleague and they mention it in passing. And what I would say to like any listeners is. Really make sure that you understand what is covered in your insurance provider.'cause by asking these questions, and even if it's partial coverage or they might cover a certain amount, I don't think we look into it until it's kinda at the point where you need it, so it's having that understanding upfront too.

JESSICA

Yeah. There's so much more coverage now too than there was before. For, it's becoming something that a lot of insurance companies are at least partially covering. Maybe not fully, but there are some benefits that might be applied. So yes, if you are looking, considering it definitely look at, call your insurance and see what your options are. And there are some states too that have more coverage than others I think as well. So that's always just something to talk about too and figure out what your options would be because there is a cost associated with it, of course. But it's sometimes outweighing the pros and cons of. Paying that cost or using the insurance or whatever it might be versus, waiting. So it's always a conversation that you can have with a fertility specialist. Yeah.

FRANCENE

Yeah, a hundred percent. So another question I have for you is just knowing. What you're doing from like a science standpoint, but then also how it affects like your patients and helping create families. How do you emotionally separate the outcomes from the effort in the lab? Because I can imagine that's hard.

JESSICA

Yeah, that's a really good question. And I think me personally, I work in a smaller lab where you do get to know everybody. I think bigger labs you maybe there is a little bit more personal experience, but working in a smaller lab where you really get to know everybody, it is hard. Yeah, especially when a cycle doesn't turn out the way you. You would hope for. And then also being the person who calls and gives those results is a little bit difficult too. So it, it is difficult. One thing that I've had to learn over the years is even when you do everything right, not everyone is going to. Have a successful cycle. And a lot, a lot of times I have to remind myself, there is a reason why they're here why they're doing IVF. And even if I sit here and I do everything right there's still a chance that things won't work out the way that we want them to. And it was hard at first. You want every single transfer you do to be a successful pregnancy. Of course.

FRANCENE

Yeah.

JESSICA

You want a hundred percent fertilization on everything, but you just have to learn that there, there's a reason why success rates are there and they're not a hundred percent. For everyone. And even if you sit there, the thing I can tell myself at the end of the day is, I'm gonna go in, I'm going to do my best. And what happens is out of my control at that point as long as I continue to do my best, just

FRANCENE

yeah. I love that. When it comes to your patients, and I love that. You work in a more kinda smaller lab, like I do think that kind of personalized experience I think probably makes such a difference when it comes to patients. Like for me, I had a good relationship with my doctor, but in reality you have that consultation. You have the ability to obviously go through the nurses to get, the doctors feedback, but then the next time you truly see that doctor is when you do the implantation. So really my relationship was more with the nurses. But I love, and it was a big practice, so the thought of ha kinda having that more personalized experience, I think also would make a more comforting experience. But when it comes to the patients, what do you wish they kinda didn't blame themselves for?'cause you mentioned some of those kind of unsuccessful kinda IVF. Experiences. And I think a lot of times, like I know from my perspective you're like, gosh, I shouldn't have done this, and this. And in reality, so much is out of your control.

JESSICA

No, you're absolutely right. And that's exactly what I was going to say is one thing I tell people all the time is this is infertility is not your fault. The reason you need to do IVF is not your fault. So much of this comes from genetic factors that are out of your, like out of our control. And there isn't something that somebody does that causes infertility and I think. It's hard to maybe not get wrapped up in that mentality sometimes, especially when you're really in the thick of treatment and things aren't going well. And sometimes there might be that tendency for some self-blame, but really so much of it we don't even know a lot of the causes of infertility. We have general ideas. But again, we're still, as a scientific community as a whole, we're still figuring out a lot of these reasons and we're learning more genetic components and we're learning more environmental components and so much of it is out of our control. And unfortunately, it's just something that some people do become affected by in one way or another, whether, whether they know it or not, whether they're young or older, whether it, it doesn't matter if they're a male or female, their race. It's something that affects everybody. And really I don't know. I think that's what I would tell people is no matter what you do you follow your doctor's orders and you do what you need to do, and after that, nothing, you, nothing that happens is your fault.

FRANCENE

I love that. I think that's a good message. And I know when I was reaching out to the IVF specialist and for my situation, I remember going through all the tests and he was like. Yeah, everything seems okay and you're like, gosh, how annoying. Yeah. And explain, okay, fertility, everything. Okay, awesome. So what does that mean? And yeah, you have some thoughts around, maybe it's'cause of this, and this. And like speaking to your friends one of the things that people always say to you is Don't think about it. Don't stress out. The stress is probably not helping. And then you're like, great. That's all I'm thinking about. Yeah.

JESSICA

Just relax.

FRANCENE

Yeah, just relax. It'll happen. Yeah. And it's always you hear like the tales of people who, you know what? We stop trying and we stopped thinking about it, and then we got pregnant.

JESSICA

Yep. Yep. And you were like everyone's cousin.

FRANCENE

Yes. And you're like, everyone

JESSICA

did that and it worked.

FRANCENE

Should have, she just stopped thinking about it. But yeah, I think that's one of the hardest things too, is not that you wish that there is something wrong, but when you get the message around we just don't know. Everything seems fine. You're like, gosh. Hard,

JESSICA

unexplained infertility. It's frustrating because you're not really given an answer. You're more just given a diagnosis without a cause. And then, I think as humans our tend. Is to say, okay, now that I know what's wrong I know how to fix it. Yes. But now I don't know what's wrong and so I can't fix it. And that's very frustrating, right?

FRANCENE

Yeah.

JESSICA

Yeah.

FRANCENE

It is hard. So as like patients out there listening to this and also following you as you break down the IVF, what advice would you give to patients to advocate for themselves without being difficult, if you will?

JESSICA

That's a good question. It's something that I think I probably get asked more often than not, and it's almost stepping back for a second and saying, if you were talking to your friend, what would you tell them? So say you had a friend who was struggling. With infertility or struggling to get pregnant what would you tell them and then what you would tell them? Try telling that to yourself. If they said, Hey, we're really struggling and, we wanna do this, and this, you would say, okay. Advocate for yourself. Tell your doctor how you feel. Get a second opinion. Call your insurance company. So everything that you would be telling, supporting your friend on doing, do that for yourself. So step back and think of it like that because there are a lot of ways that you can advocate for yourself. And sometimes that's very difficult, especially when you are in a consultation with a doctor that you don't know and you get a very limited amount of time and all of a sudden you're being bombarded with information and you're like, wait, I have all these questions, but now I can't think of any of them because. I'm so overloaded now with information and next steps and procedures and everything that I can't think about it. A couple things you can definitely do. Write down your questions so you have them in front of you anytime you go to an appointment. That way you can ask those questions because you are putting a lot into the process. Yeah. Whether you're new to infertility or you've been doing it for years, you're investing a lot into the process and you deserve to have the answers that you want and that you like, you deserve to have the answers that you. Need from a professional. So don't be afraid to ask those questions. If something doesn't make sense, just ask about it. Just say, you mentioned this, but I don't understand what that means, or what are my other options, and why are we picking this? Those are good things to ask. Do your research. There's a lot of information out there. It could be a little bit overwhelming, sometimes, a little bit conflicting, but if there's ever something that you see maybe reading an article and you say, Hey, that sounds interesting. I want more information about that, just ask. Don't be afraid to be annoying. You're not only putting money into the process, but you're emotions too. Oh, yeah. And you're, there's so much that you're investing and you deserve that. So again, think about it if this were my friend and she were telling me this, I would probably tell her, ask the questions, do the research, do this, and then apply that to yourself. And that's a good way to advocate, I think.

FRANCENE

Yeah, that's good advice. And like for me, being able to find like your page and how you break down IVF and you explain and you're very like, interactive with your community. But tell me what was the reason that you wanted to create that? Like space online?

JESSICA

That's a good question. I, and I like that. So I made my account in 2022. So now there were a lot more accounts out there, but at the time, there really weren't. Yeah, there were a couple great accounts. No, no doubt about that. But what kind of made me want to start explaining IVF was in those conversations that I would have with the patients where we talked earlier about how I said, you really realize that yeah, this. This is an embryo, but this is someone's embryo. You really start to understand the importance of what you're doing. But it also came from talking to people and giving them their updates. And a lot of the times they just didn't understand what I was saying. I would say, okay, we had seven eggs that fertilized and we had three embryos that we were able to freeze and people. Often didn't know and probably still don't know exactly what that means. And again, I started to think, they're putting so much into this process and they probably have no idea what's going on behind the doors of the lab, right? So we can sit here all day and get these updates, but they're, if it, they, it would be great for them to know what was actually. Happening inside the lab. So that's what made me start making the videos about, this is how we do IXs e, and this is what an egg retrie will looks like, and this is what an egg looks like. And that way they really can get an idea of exactly what's going on without being able to see it, because obviously they can't come into the lab and see what's happening all the time. But having a general idea of what's happening behind those doors and maybe being able to apply that to where they're at in their cycle, I think is very helpful. And then I also do have a little bit more of a community component now to explaining IVS, but really the. The main drive was just trying to get that information out there for people in a way that's easy to understand because I, IVF is so complicated. Yeah. It is so technical and, yeah. Yeah. So just being able to get that out there in a way for, that's easy for people to understand. That makes sense. That's visual, that's free because there's, it's already so expensive. That was my main drive for that really.

FRANCENE

Yeah, it is very expensive.

JESSICA

Yeah. Yeah.

FRANCENE

And where do you see the like future of IVF? Like how do you see this changing in the field

JESSICA

overall? Not greatly, but. There are a lot, there's so much more technology now than there was before, and there's a constant influx of new technology through ai that I think is really going to be making its way into the lab. I don't know that it would take over completely. I hope it doesn't. I think that there needs to be a human. Aspect of embryology. I don't think it's something that a machine should be able to do. But realistically, if you look into the future, it's something that we could see maybe down the road or at least some kind of technology that helps through a lot of the process. So maybe embryologists aren't doing all of the steps. And AI is helping in some ways, but I think that's really the future of it. I think overall there isn't a lot of, we'll still do the egg retrieval, we'll still do ixy, we'll still grow the embryos, we'll still freeze, we'll still do genetic testing which is also becoming more, technological too. But I think it's just implementing those changes into the process to hopefully make it more efficient. But also hope we hopefully don't lose the human aspect of it as well.

FRANCENE

Yeah, I hope not, but I'm sure. Yeah. When it comes to ai, there's so many applications for so many jobs out there, and hopefully it's just to optimize and help with things versus take over.'cause I think having that human element. Makes a huge world of difference. Like I don't think I agree. You could replace that. But no, this is so helpful. I actually do have another question. Just when you mentioned like the genetic testing, so what exactly does that include? So if I was looking. To and actually we did do that with our IVF cycle. And I'm still asking the question on truly what were we looking at? But if you were talking to someone right now who was considering it, what should we be thinking about?

JESSICA

So genetic testing is where we the most. The one that we're talking about is called pre-implantation genetic testing,

FRANCENE

uhhuh,

JESSICA

Which means we test the embryos before they're implanted. We test them in that we take a biopsy sample from them before they're implanted into the uterus or transferred into the uterus. And the most common type of this. Testing, PGT is called PGTA for aneuploidy. There are other kinds, but they're a little more specific. But PGTA is the one that we do most often, and what it does is it looks at the chromosomes in the cells that we send for genetic testing, and it looks for major. Abnormalities. So is there a chromosome missing? Is there an extra chromosome? Is there a big part of a chromosome missing, or is there an extra part of a, like a big part of a chromosome? It can't look at microscopic like really tiny abnormalities, but it can look at those bigger pictures like the. The chromosomes as a whole and say, these are very big abnormalities, and it can also tell you what percent of the cells are affected with those abnormalities. Oh, wow. And from there, yeah. Yeah. It can that's where you get those readings. Euploid meaning most of the cells don't have any abnormalities. Aneuploid, meaning most of the cells do have abnormalities, and then there's something in the middle called Mosaic, and it's just. Some do and some don't to a certain percentage, and that might differ between the company that you're using, but that's really what they're looking at. These bigger abnormalities in the cells and how many are affected to determine whether or not that embryo would be considered euploid, mosaic, or aneuploid. There's so many you could talk for hours about PGT, but that's it in a nutshell. But if anyone ever does have questions about PGTA, I would definitely recommend talking with a genetic counselor who can provide a lot of that information for any, for anybody who might be interested. And sometimes if you're electing to do genetic testing, the company that you do it with will have genetic counselors. Or there are others out there as well that you can talk with too to get more info.

FRANCENE

That is very helpful'cause I did not know that.

JESSICA

Yeah,

FRANCENE

you've just educated me and we went through it, which is terrible.

JESSICA

No, it's fine. It's why I'm, that's why I do what I do.

FRANCENE

Honestly, like I cannot recommend your online presence. And I really hope people go check it out. So it's at explaining IVF so easy to remember. But really like your videos and that's how I, I found you to be honest, was just trying to do some research. But my doctor and I have a really bad habit of falling down the Google rabbit hole of, Google sometimes doesn't give you. The best information or it's always like the worst case scenario. So yeah, my doctor's advice to me was, Francine, please don't Google if you have questions, ask. But one of the things I love about Instagram is being able to connect to, with like real people like yourself, real experts that, share great content, as you said is free. But you're able to interact and kinda have a better. Understanding with the right information versus Googling and they have no Google doesn't know my personal situation,

JESSICA

yeah, no, I completely agree. And exciting news too. I did recently publish a book as well, and it's a co, it's a comprehensive. Guide, like all to IVF, infertility and family building. It's called the trying time if anybody's interested in and not, I'm not here to promote it. Of course. I

FRANCENE

love, I love that promoted

JESSICA

Yeah. Know if if anybody does want info, it's got, it's filled with information and the information is all contributed by professionals in the field. So it's not something that I read online. It's all from reis and genetic counselors and therapists. And, so if there's any, like ever anybody who needs info, there's a whole chapter about PGTA from a really great genetic counselor Megan Doyle, and just other really great professionals in the field. So if anyone's. If anybody needs more info, you know it, it's available too as a resource.

FRANCENE

That's amazing. Congratulations. I can't imagine you. That was an easy thing to put together while you're also working full-time.

JESSICA

Yeah.

FRANCENE

And doing your was online presence. That's amazing. Oh,

JESSICA

thank you.

FRANCENE

What does your future look like within this space?

JESSICA

I definitely wanna keep writing. I need to figure out exactly the extent of that, but I really do writing. I do work at a fertility clinic, so that takes up some time and, trying to do a work life balance, of course Is fun. So I try to keep my online presence as, as present as possible, but I know lately I've been, there's just other things, that kind of come into play that sometimes interfere. So I do my best to keep up with it. But I also help organize the. Resolve Pittsburgh Walk of Hope every year. So that's in April. Cities across the US do it. It's a fundraising event through Resolve, which is a really great in organization.

FRANCENE

Oh, that's

JESSICA

awesome. And we just had, yeah, we have everyone in the community get together and we just spend the day learning about the resources that are out there and letting people form relationships and we walk to honor everyone's path. Yeah, so I stay busy with that too. And yeah that's what the future I think looks like. Nothing major, but just steady, gradual growth.

FRANCENE

I love it. Thank you so much again for taking the time to speak with me today and just helping educate and create more awareness about IVF and what that looks like. And also just sharing your knowledge online. Like again, it helped me and I hope, I have no doubt it's helped more people and more people in the future, but it's such a daunting emotional. Process that people go through without having, the educated background on truly what are each of these steps? What does this look like? So the fact that you're able to break it down and make it easy to understand really helps.

JESSICA

Oh, thank you. I appreciate that and I'm always here if you ever need anything, I'm always happy to answer questions or help on any way I can.

FRANCENE

Thank you so much.