Season 5 Real Beauty with FD: TRIGGER WARNING podcast episode. PART 2 I’m honored to be joined by Cait Mathieu (founder of Due To Joy) to discuss miscarriage loss, ectopic pregnancy and how we want to be open to having meaningful discussions about this s

TIGGER WARNING EPISODE 

Part Two of my episode with Cait - go find her at DUE TO JOY 

Hit me up @choosandfashiondoos 

Transcript

0:00

Hey, welcome to real BT with FD. This is episode 10. Yay. And we are at week of Thanksgiving in the us. So hopefully my listeners are able to take some well-deserved time off. Um, and they're able to spend it what their loved ones or friends or family. And I really You are able just to enjoy that time and truly feel thankful for everything you have and take that moment of gratitude. This is a holiday that we don't have in the UK. And I remember moving over to the us. We moved in August of 2014. And every single Thanksgiving we have spent with different families, different friends. And honestly, knowing that we don't have family here, we've created such a great community. And now I actually prefer this holiday over Christmas. Um, I will wait. I will caveat Bab. Because now we have Luna and she's older. And she's really into like the magic of Christmas and we get to do like all the incredible things and we've had Alf. R R L since the 1st of November. So I really do embrace it. So let me say that I, I love Christmas and even more so now because she brings the magic to us. But I love Thanksgiving because it truly is about being thankful for what. You have, and the people around you. Instead of Christmas that I feel sometimes you just get too caught up with. The need to buy stuff. Um, buy stuff for other people in your family that it's sometimes can create a bit more kind of stress. Um, instead of just truly enjoying it. So one of the things I've done That I swear. I promise here now you all can hold me accountable. I'm going to do this. Moving forward is. I wrapped and bought all my Christmas presents. Like literally the first week of November, in fact, I finished it like the end of October and then wrapped them first week of November. So I feel really small right now. And really organized. And I'm literally going to do that every year. Like the only thing I need to do is get stuff for like Luna's teachers, which is fine.'cause it's, you know, something small and I'm like easy now. And I can do that in like kind of one batch, but anyway, Highly recommend it. So. Going in back into, um, my conversation. Just again, a trigger warning that I mentioned on the last podcast, but just to say for anyone that might be a little bit sensitive to this topic of discussion, which is around the loss of. Uh, child miscarriage, aquatic pregnancy. I strongly recommend. You skip over this episode. And then, um, I will be back with a different guest next week, but if you're able to. Because I really. But I appreciate people deal with. You know, different subjects differently, and sometimes you, you just don't want to hear about it. It brings up too much emotion, but. I really do want this to be a topic of conversation that. We are able to talk about and not feel. Ashamed or that we shouldn't be speaking about it or it's too sensitive. It's, you know, this happens to people. Um, it's very rare and Caltech pregnancies happen to 1% of, um, the population. And well, Like women. Um, and then, so Ms. Hodges, I believe it's like one in five. I need to double check that statistic, but. Anyway, um, I appreciate you being here and listening to this and please, you know, I'm always open for discussions, conversations around this subject. Um, never, you know, be afraid to reach out to me regardless of your opinion and view. So, um, I really appreciate Um, enjoy.

cait: 4:18

but I would say something to myself each day of, like, today I am pregnant. Mm-hmm. because I could not go there tomorrow. Like I could, we can't step into tomorrow and know what it will look like for us. And so I would say I'm okay. I'm safe today. I'm pregnant. And um, I'm loved, like I would just say things that I knew I easily forget, like I'm not alone. Yeah. That. Something I'm tethered to is like the first lie that I believe is like, you're alone. No one else feels this way. Yeah. You're, you're just, you know, like you're overreacting or things like that. And talking with friends who had gone before me and had pregnancies after loss or had, um, also experienced a loss like that was such a community. I'm so thankful for in that time and even still now, like there's a whole online community. I don't know if you've tapped into yet, but there's I

francene: 5:26

have, I've been trying to, Yeah,

cait: 5:28

yeah. There wasn't seven, six years ago. Yeah. And so it like makes my heart just explodes seeing how, how many people are dedicated to this cause of like, you don't have to do this alone. Yeah, I agree. Facebook support groups. There's Instagram accounts, TikTok accounts, like any, anywhere on the internet. You look, blogs all over that you can, um, read and be inspired by their stories. And so not to say that like their story will be my story, but it is encouraging. It does. Hope to see someone who's gone before. Yeah. That helped a lot. Whenever I was pregnant with Stella, I was scrounging around the internet. Yeah. Cause if I didn't have anyone in my life personally that had done that, then it's sort of, you can only take so much like well wishes and, you know.

francene: 6:26

Yeah. It's, it's true. Um, And yeah, I definitely appreciate the access that we have online. Mm-hmm. if you are not able to kinda find that support or maybe you're not as comfortable to speak about it, is you can find that comfort through stories and, you know, different networks, um, which is, is awesome, right? Like there's something out there for everyone. Um, But speaking of, you know, kind of friends and, um, the kinda support, um, that you kind of got through this, um, Sometimes people mean well, and they, they say things and you think, Oh, okay. Um, like I know I, a lot of people say to me like, Well, at least you know you can get pregnant. Oh. I'm like, Yes. I just can't keep it. But yes,

cait: 7:26

I like,

francene: 7:27

Oh my gosh. Yeah. But, um, But, but it's, it's, it's interesting the things that, um, and again, I, I don't want this to come across for anyone listening that they're like, Gosh, I can't say anything. But it's, um, it, it's obviously a very sensitive subject and especially between women. It's like, we wanna say stuff that's comforting, right? Um, But again, it's, it's, in some situations it's like, well, again, at least you can get pregnant and, you know, just try again. It'll be okay. And um, and I think. To me, it's like you just need people to listen at the beginning. That's, um, yeah. And you wanna hear stories from people that have gone through it right. To, to kind of connect and you have that kind of credibility that you're like, Okay, they, they kind understand what I'm going through. Um, but for me, for kinda others is I just needed the kinda listening and to be like, I'm here for you and. You know? Yeah. Like, I'm, I'm, I'm here. Um, how, how did you kind of find that when you did kind of come out and say, um, Yeah,

cait: 8:39

so that, I'm not gonna lie to you. That part was really hard. Yeah. Of like friends who I know. Love me deeply and like, want the best for me and are grieving with me. Yeah. Sometimes we just say things. Yeah, just word vomit. It just comes out and it's coming from a good place wellbeing. Um, but it doesn't take away the sting necessarily that. Hearts feel. Yeah. Um, and so I would get a lot of things like, Oh, you'll get pregnant again, I promise. And I'm like, You can't make that promise. I know.

francene: 9:15

Don't make the promise me

cait: 9:17

or, or at least you can get pregnant. That's a very common one. And I'm like, Maybe don't say at least, Yeah. Just removed from our vocab So, Never ends well. And so it's sort of like something that like I myself would say to friends who were going through a hard time and I've sort of really made the effort to change my vocabulary of like, yeah. I will sit with you like I hurt with you, like my heart breaks for you and I'm sorry that you're going through this. Like those are some things that you can't go wrong. Saying those things I'm dropping off dinner, like those kinds of things. A tangible gift or something to remember their baby by um, is always helpful. But I think as far as what not to say, I think there's this unspoken assumption that people make about miscarriage, pregnancy loss, um, or any type of grief that, um, Like once a certain amount of time passes. Yeah. It's like, time to move on. Yeah. Yeah. They don't know how to breach in and be like, Are you good? Like, how are you gonna be doing? And so, um, or they don't want to make us sad or remind us about it, but like the truth of it is we haven't forgotten anything like it is right here. Yeah. In our face every day. Sometimes we're still physically healing. Yeah. And so, If you're wondering if you should check in on a friend who has shared their loss with you, the answer has not to trigger them or remind them of it. They've, they've been reminded every day. It's, it hasn't left them. Um, but I don't think you can go wrong with getting out of your comfort zone and pressing into that uncomfortable place of. I don't know what to say and I feel like I don't have the right words, but I love you and I'm here for you.

francene: 11:27

Yeah. Yeah. And that's powerful. I, oh my gosh, I wholeheartedly agree. And I, I think I messaged this yesterday, um, to is like, I, I did find like an overwhelming, like love initially when, you know, so many people reached out and obviously again, I publicly said something on Instagram. Mm-hmm. Like I publicly kind of stated it and tried to kind of do it from an education standpoint. Um, so so many people reached out and like my friends, they were great and I got great stories, but I then kind of feel now it's as if, okay, I've spoken about it. I don't wanna speak about again cause it's not a nice subject and it's awkward. Mm-hmm. you know what I mean? It's like you kind of feel, and in a way I also, I was telling, um, like my husband, I'm like, I also don't wanna be that friend where someone gets pregnant. They're like, Shit, we can't say anything in front of, Right. Cause you're like, No, trust me. Like I, I can feel the love for other people and I've always been that way. Like, I, I find happiness when I see people happy. But it's like you, you don't wanna be kind of that person where they all start kind of talking about like trying for a baby and then it's. Yeah. Cause you wanna speak about it. And again, the whole purpose of me talking and being so open was I'm, I'm okay to speak about this. This is how I'm healing. Yes. But if you don't and we don't acknowledge it, it kind of puts it back into, you should feel shameful for this happening or talking about it. Um, And that's another reason why I wanted to kind of do this podcast episode was I know it's not just me that feels that way.

cait: 13:11

Absolutely. Oh my goodness. I can't tell you how many times I've, I've spoken with someone and they're like, I just feel like I can't. Yeah. Even though I have in the past and it's been a screen light, like, yeah, say it, but then now I'm just like, I don't wanna be that guy. You know? Like and I, that resonates so much. I remember after. Sharing. I just sort of felt like no one's gonna feel like they should invite me to their baby shower cause they don't wanna hurt my feelings. Yeah. Or, and like, very well you could decline a baby shower and be totally justified and kind about it and all that, but um, there's sort of this like, Buffer zone of like, they don't wanna get too close to my mess, but they also don't wanna, they love me and don't wanna hurt me. Yeah. So it's, it's tough. And I, I can feel empathy for friends who want to support Yeah. People they love who are hurting. Um, and so there's, there's so many things. Yeah, I, I'm still learning as a friend of people who are hurting. Yeah. There's graces on all sides

francene: 14:24

for, for sure. And, um, to that point, and I know you mentioned this earlier too, is I feel going through this, it gives me a different empathy for people going through loss in general. Um, and I, I always feel like I'm empathetic and like. I have a lot of feelings, but even just as we're talking about, you know, how to word things, how much we're kind of reaching out and I even look back and think, gosh, there was probably situations that I could have handled better or, you know, done something more. Um, That I think, you know, it's always in life, right? We get these lessons. Yeah, we learn them and we're like, Oh, damn, if only had known this like ages ago. Um, and this is the only way we can kind of evolve and develop. And like, I appreciate that, um, and I appreciate that growth. Um, but it does, going through this, it does make you kinda look back or if your friends reach out and say, I went through a miscarriage too. You're like, Gosh, why didn't you say something and then get back and you think, Yeah, actually you were like a little bit disconnected and I didn't think anything of it. Or we're so in our own little bubble that we're self-absorbed. Sometimes you're like, Oh my God, what's wrong with blah blah, blah? Why are they not coming out personally? Yes. And then. Yeah, it, it kind of puts stuff into perspective, but it even made me sad when I heard some of my friends who'd gone through this and even I'D one individual that I work with, and again, I was very open, you know, I told my manager and. You know, I'm just an open person and she was like, Gosh, I can't believe you told work. Like, I can't believe you said something, but why would you not? Yeah, why would you not? You know, this is, if we're not willing to say we're not helping society grow and companies grow and, you know, address these types of conversations in the office or at home. Um, But anyway, it's just, it's, yeah, it's, it's interesting, um, the reactions and again, how I felt about individuals that I was like, Gosh, if I'd known, I, yeah, I, I would've done something. And I feel sad that they had to go through that loan.

cait: 16:49

Yeah, absolutely. That's like my, my whole heart behind sort of the care package portion of, um, due to joy. I had so many friends a couple summers ago just back to back to back lose babies, like throughout their pregnancy. Multiple friends that were like very close, like in my close circle of friends, and I just remember feeling helpless. I have to do something. Two of them lived sort of on the other side of Texas, so I couldn't like go there and be with them and watch their other kids and all that. So, um, so basically the care packages that I create, it has something like a little bit of self care, a little bit of soul care, like journals to sort of process your grief and all that. And so I put together what I wish I would've. In that time. And so that was so the, the heart of empathy of like, I have friends who I love who are going through it and I don't know what to do. And I'm sure I'm not the only person who doesn't know what to do. Yeah. And I still struggle to find the exact words. There's no perfect words. But, um, that really resonates that feeling of like, even looking back, like there, there are situations I've been in. Maybe I did say at least blah, blah, blah,

francene: 18:14

Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. I'm sure I did too. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, I'm gra glad you brought up the packages cuz again, when we connected and I saw this, I was like, God, that's so genius. Cuz again, we're talking about the things that, you know, you, you can say, or how to show support. This is an incredible way of showing support that's not sending flowers or, you know, it, it's something else. It's, it's, that's a lot more meaningful. And as you mentioned, you have like journals, different things kind of in these packages, but even like, The most durable necklace and like plantable seed, paper and candle and chocolate. And it's, it's like, honestly, when I look at this, I'm like, Yeah, that probably would've like, made my day, like essential oils. Um, like it's just such a thoughtful gift. Um, but on top of that, you also have care packages for. Men. Mm-hmm. some recent one. Yeah. And you know, it was interesting how many people reached out to me. and it was all about me, right. And my husband was like, you know, there's been like some great people reaching out to me, but he was like, No one talks about the guy. Yeah. I was like, And it's true, like yes, we are physically going through it, but you think about all the dads out there and this is what they've been longing for. And then they get the news, they're with the journey and they're like an observer. Yeah. And they're pained cuz they can't take away. Your wife's pain or your partner's pain, but they're going through it and no one truly is like, Hey, dad, are, are you doing okay? Um, and even from like a support perspective and you know, society, I think men are getting there where they're a bit more open. Um, And I would say my husband has great relationships with his friends, and again, he was open, discussed it, but I love the fact you have something for men too. Um, like that is awesome. Um, and I truly think like this helps. Um,

cait: 20:30

it's so needed and, and there's such a gap in the support area of even online. Like you'll see things geared toward. Mothers who have lost a baby. Um, but just sort of how, like the conversation that happens online and in person is someone will go to the dad and say, How's your wife? Yeah. Not how are you?

francene: 20:53

Yeah. Or at least like, so here, here's another top tip for the listeners, Make sure you're like, How are you both doing Well, what can we do for, for both of you? Because, um, I will, and you know this too, with your partner. Mm-hmm. guys feel that loss too. Like they, they really do. And even, um, like the second time or like the second time after my miscarriage, I got pregnant. When I told my husband even he was like, I'm scared to get excited. Yes. So it's like they're, they're feeling it and. You know, I would highly recommend that you know if, again, depending on how comfortable you are, kind of relying on your friends or your network, ensure that you are having that dialogue with your spouse. Yes. Back and forth. Like, it's not just how you are feeling, it's ensuring that you're pulling it out of your partner. So you're, you're both having that dialogue and you know, kind of talking, cuz I think. again, it's hard to sometimes get wrapped up in your own loss mm-hmm. and to go down the, well, it's not your body. And I'm the one feeling the physical pain and you know, the heart pain, but they are too. It's just not physical.

cait: 22:13

Right. I think it's, it's probably even layers of grief where. Men typically grieve differently. They maybe aren't as expressive. It probably depends on the guy, but my husband is not as emotional and I'm, I swing the pendulum like I'm real emotional or I'm like, I don't care about anything. Yeah. And so, um, and so yeah, it's, it's probably hard for them cuz. May feel like, Well, I don't wanna show emotion because I don't wanna upset her. Yeah. Or make her think it's her fault. And so I think just in my own personal marriage, my husband felt a lot of that. Like, yes, guys would check on, or our friends would check on me only. Yeah. And he's hurting, not as physically, but he, It hurts him to watch me in so much pain. So yes, our physical bodies sort of bear the most of it, but I think the emotional it's guys aren't left out in. Feeling the effects of loss. And so it's, it became so important to me to, um, find some kind of tangible like, Hey, I see you dad, like, yeah. You also are not alone and we're not gonna let you do this alone.

francene: 23:35

Yeah, Agreed. That's why I love that you, um, have that plus you also have the most adorable, um, Oh wait, sorry. Before I go onto, You also on your, um, site, you have resources for grieving dads. So, um, and I'll send these links afterwards, but again, I think that's awesome that you have those kind of resources there. Um, so again, if you know anyone, um, you know, kind of going through this make. Please share this cuz this is great, great information. Um, but I wa what I was gonna mention is you have the most adorable DIY rainbow kids and they're so sink and cute. Um, and we, our house is like very green. Oh, I love it. Green in our house. So I saw you have like a green once. I'm definitely gonna, um, Purchase that one. I'll hook you up. Yes. Yeah, they're super, super cute. Um, and again, I'm sure, you know, it's, it's an adorable kind of thing to do, like with your, um, family or, um, you know, just for decor in general. Um, again, it can be very kinda meaningful, um, especially if you're kind of going through this and again, you want to kinda mark that and have something, um, Re remind you, but Right. You know. Yeah. So, no, I think, I think it's awesome that you kind of create this, and you've created like a space where again, you're willing to kind of talk about this and promote these types of discussions, but you also have resources that people can purchase and use, um, and provide to others. Kind of going through this. Wonderful.

cait: 25:20

Thank you friend. That's very sweet. Um, the whole rainbow thing. I know that can be sort of a, a, what is the word Not triggering, but there's, there's some controversy on rainbow if it's. Um, cuz rainbows aren't guaranteed. Sometimes people say that Rainbow is the baby born after loss. And so that's sort of what, um, Stella is to me. Yeah. Is the little rainbow baby. Yeah. But I do know that, um, Rainbow can mean a lot of different things for different people. It can mean. Holding onto hope. Um, and it's not necessarily to say that your baby that you lost was a storm. I don't think anyone who's lost a baby would hold onto that belief. Um, but just the grief and the loss, um, Feels like a storm. And so, um, that's why sort of this whole company started as a blog and then it became the macrame rainbows and I made thousands of rainbows, and then I decided I'm gonna get arthritis. If I keep doing these

francene: 26:29

rainbows, they can make it.

cait: 26:31

So now it's DIY kits. So

francene: 26:35

honestly, I think even, um, I mean, yeah. Like anyone could go out tomorrow and buy one and it's done. It's great. But I, I think even just being able to make it yourself mm-hmm. and go through the exercise. And again, it can be something you do in your own, It can be something you do with your kids. It can be something you do with your spouse where you're able to get all your friends. Mm-hmm. like I, I think, um, I honestly think kind of doing something like that and having a kit where you know, you can kind of purchase, and again, it's, it's a bit more like personal. I actually really like that. That's very sweet. So yeah, despite obviously I don't want you to have arthritis, it's like I can't, I think it's, it's a good thing. Um, um, so, Well, I, I really, really appreciate your time and again, I know this was like a really heavy subject for this morning, Um, Me too. So, but I, like, I just appreciate being able to kind of speak openly about this and, you know, I've mentioned it so many times during this conversation, just so important. Mm-hmm. like it really is, um, So to try and get back on the lightheartedness, um, I do have a quick fire round that I typically do, so whatever pops into your head, just go, go with it. All right. Um, okay. Favorite cocktail?

cait: 28:02

Ooh, uh, recently a pair mule.

francene: 28:06

Oh, oh yeah. Okay. You're in Houston, right?

cait: 28:11

I'm

francene: 28:11

in Cyprus. Okay. Oh my gosh. Cause I'm

cait: 28:17

neighbors. I love it. I love the internet.

francene: 28:20

Oh my god. I do. Um, okay, great. Cause, um, do you ever go to Vintage Park? Sometimes, yeah. Oh my gosh. They have like, great, like cocktail places. Okay. Um, oh my gosh. Chef's table. Oh, I have not been there. It, it is really good. They do like their food's great. They do like a great happy hour. But yeah, their cocktails are really good. Got it. Writing that down. Yay. I'm speaking to someone in that I can give recommendations. Yeah. Love it. Um, okay. Who would play you in a movie?

cait: 28:55

Oh, goodness. Um, wow. I've never thought about this. Um, Goodness. I don't know. I have a girl crush on Kristen Bell, so Kristen.

francene: 29:10

Oh yes. Do you know, um, I actually thought you were about to say Kristen Duns. Oh, Kristen Duns. They look like her.

cait: 29:18

Yeah, I've gotten that before.

francene: 29:21

You actually do. That's why I was like, No way. Or you're about to say Kristen Duns. Um, Forgot about. Yeah. Um, no, the good, good option, Kristen Bell. Um, especially for kids, cuz I'm sure they'd appreciate the Annana

cait: 29:37

Anna in this house.

francene: 29:38

Us too. I think I've seen honestly, all Disney movies. I never thought I'd watch him as much as I have. I probably know like all the words. I'm like super fan. All parents are super fans, Big fan. Same. Um, what is your most used emoji?

cait: 29:54

Ooh. Probably, I'm gonna say the. Cow emoji recently. My daughter was just a cow for Halloween, and so it's been like spit by her cow emojis. I was wondering where you're

francene: 30:11

going with that.

cait: 30:14

My daughters cows and she wears her costume every day since, so,

francene: 30:19

Oh God, that's adorable. Um, if you could relive one of your dreams over and over, what would it. Oh,

cait: 30:28

like a dream at night that you have?

francene: 30:30

Yeah.

cait: 30:31

Um, lots of flying dreams. That's a recurring dream, like floating in the sky, so would love to be able to do that. That's the only thing that comes to mind. I don't really remember my dreams much, but that

francene: 30:47

do you know, I literally interviewed someone like, um, a couple of months ago and he interprets your dreams. Wow. To be like, like what are you kind of subconsciously thinking about? What does it mean and. Honestly, it was so damn fascinating. Like, I'm obsessed with dreams and when I wake up I will typically kind of write down what it was I was thinking about. Or I wake my husband off and I'm like, Oh my God, guess what just happened? Um,

cait: 31:14

I love it. I should do that. I should keep a notepad by my bed.

francene: 31:17

Yeah. He actually recommended, um, his name's Michael Lennox. He recommended waking up and drawing. What, beyond the dream, but I'm like, I'm the worst drawer. Like, that'll be like scribbles. Yeah. Um, anyway, Um, and lastly, what is your life motto or favorite phrase that you live by?

cait: 31:42

Um, my favorite phrase, I don't know if it's a phrase, but it's something that just pops up in every area of my life. Um, just that you matter. And that you're not alone. That's like, I get that tattooed all over my body if I could

francene: 32:01

Love it. Um, and it definitely resonates through everything that you do. So thank you so, so much again. Um, and as we mentioned, I will be kind of sending these links out. Um, so due to Joy, um, please go have a look. Um, At your profile, at the kits, um, and just know that I'm sure you're open to kinda having discussions and I am the same. And to your point. You're not alone. Mm-hmm. I'm not a No. Our listeners. So more than happy to kind of be there for individuals that want to kind of talk more about this. Mm-hmm. Um, but thank you so much for having this conversation with me. Of

cait: 32:44

course. Thank you for having me. I loved hanging out with you and chatting and Yeah. So it's been,

francene: 32:51

Yay. Me too. And I can't believe you're so close. So yeah, I need to reach out to you after this and um, especially if you're kind of native to this area. We've only been here for about nearly three years. Oh. And obviously Covid happens, so we're still trying to kinda see all the kind of hot spots and things to do. So

cait: 33:13

that's, Let's get together. I would love that.

francene: 33:16

Yay. Okay, let's do that. Okay, well thank you so much. Have a great day. And, um, we will talk very. Awesome. Sounds great. Bye bye.